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Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
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#1
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5./KG 1 Forced Landing, Russia 2nd August 1942
Hi all
I am currently researching a Flugbuch from 5./KG 1. I have an entry for 2nd August 1942 showing that Ju 88 V4+BC force-landed that day having been hit by Flak and attacked by three Russian fighters. The aircraft was flown by Oberleutnant Oscar Müller and I believe others on board were Feldwebel Koltermann, Unteroffizier Höchst and Unteroffizier Beinstinge. Does anyone have a copy of the loss report? I would very much like to get the first names of the NCOs and any information on whether injuries were sustained. All help very much appreciated
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Best wishes Tim O. Looking for any information or documents relating to: Alfred Schmittka 5./KG 54; Josef Harmeling 4.(Schlacht)/LG 2; Wilhelm Gaul 1./106, 2./906 & III./KG 40; Karl Müller I./KG 2; Werner Breese 5.(F)/122 |
#2
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Re: 5./KG 1 Forced Landing, Russia 2nd August 1942
Hi Tim,
in the Gen.Qu. loss report from 4 August 1942 are different spellings of the names Höchst and Beinstinge, the pilot was Fw Koltermann, Oblt Müller is not listed: 2.8. Stab II./KG 1 Feindflug, Ort: Krasnoje-Selo, Ursache: Bauchlandung infolge Jägerbeschuss, Flugzeug verbrannt. Ju 88 A-4 5826 100% F Fw Alfred Koltermann verletzt Bf Uffz Philipp Höschst verletzt Bs Uffz Erwin Beinstingl vereletzt. Perhaps the NVM can clarify this. Regards Leo |
#3
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Re: 5./KG 1 Forced Landing, Russia 2nd August 1942
Quote:
Your spellings look correct now that I re-read the handwriting in the Flugbuch so that also helps a lot too. Many thanks
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Best wishes Tim O. Looking for any information or documents relating to: Alfred Schmittka 5./KG 54; Josef Harmeling 4.(Schlacht)/LG 2; Wilhelm Gaul 1./106, 2./906 & III./KG 40; Karl Müller I./KG 2; Werner Breese 5.(F)/122 |
#4
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Re: 5./KG 1 Forced Landing, Russia 2nd August 1942
Leo,
Are you sure it states Koltermann as the pilot? This is a very experienced crew and this incident was likely their last mission together as a crew. In the Ehrenliste’s for the Ehrenpokal the following is shown: Ltn Oskar Müller Flugzeugführer 16.03.42 Fw Alfred Koltermann Bombenschütze 02.04.42 Uffz Philipp Höchst Bordfunker 30.03.42 Gefr Erwin Beinstingl Bordschütze 15.06.42 In the DKiG database – they are recorded as in the following: Oblt Oskar Müller F 5./KG 1 11.05.42 Fw Alfred Koltermann Bs 5./KG 1 17.06.42 Uffz Philipp Höchst Bs 5./KG 1 04.08.42 Gefr Erwin Beinstingl Not listed - - I note that in the DKiG database that Bs is for both Bombenschütze and Bordschütze. Höchst listed as Bs is a bit confusing in this one? Furthermore, in the Russian website http://www.airwar.ru/history/av2ww/a...s2/kg1-42.html Has the following: Ff – not named Bo – Fw A Koltermann Bf – Uffz P Hoeschst Bs – Uffz E Beistingl To me it appears that Müller was the pilot, Koltermann the bomb-aimer, Höschst (Höchst?) the radio operator and Beinstingl the gunner! Does anyone else have information to confirm crew positions? Regards, Craig…
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There is always three sides to an argument, Your's, Theirs and the Truth. Sometimes the Truth is hard to find. |
#5
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Re: 5./KG 1 Forced Landing, Russia 2nd August 1942
Hello Craig,
sorry that I have misread the function of Fw Koltermann. In the Gen.Qu. loss report he is listed as B (= Beobachter), not F (= Flugzeugführer). In the Gen.Qu. loss reports the usual abbreviations for the functions of the crew members were F = Flugzeugführer B = Beobachter Bf = Bordfunker Bs = Bordschütze Bm = Bordmechaniker. In other publications we find FF = Flugzeugführer BO = Beobachter BF = Bordfunker BS = Bordschütze BM = Bordmechaniker. Regards Leo |
#6
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Re: 5./KG 1 Forced Landing, Russia 2nd August 1942
BW = 1. Bordwart (Ground Mech/crew chief, travelling on)
Ju 88 A-4 088/5826 (5826 #26 ) photo on eBay 04.2015 - shows burned out wreck in long grass Last edited by edNorth; 13th March 2018 at 01:58. |
#7
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Re: 5./KG 1 Forced Landing, Russia 2nd August 1942
Thank you all
Excellent team work and I am confident in the final conclusions. Your time and effort is much appreciated.
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Best wishes Tim O. Looking for any information or documents relating to: Alfred Schmittka 5./KG 54; Josef Harmeling 4.(Schlacht)/LG 2; Wilhelm Gaul 1./106, 2./906 & III./KG 40; Karl Müller I./KG 2; Werner Breese 5.(F)/122 |
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