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Old 7th August 2017, 17:10
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Fw-190 shot down on 19th of September 1943 over Belgium

Hello,

I am looking for any information about a Fw-190 shot down on 19th of September 1943 over Belgium, halfway between the city of Veurne and Lille, France.
The plane attacked a formation of returning B-26 Marauder after a bombing mission to Lille, France.
Description of the incident is as following.

“The enemy coast was coming into view as the German pilots continued their tenacious attacks upon the 386th Bombers. A FW-190 pilot lined up on ship number 131685 YA-J being flown by Lieutenant Roy Voorhees. The enemy flier came in from 6 o’clock high and fired continuously from 600 yards out, down to a mere 25 yards—scoring hits in the right wing and aft fuselage of the bomber. Tail gunner Staff Sergeant E.F. Nubert of the attacked plane answered the fire along with Staff Sergeant H.E. Reisinger who was also a tail gunner and flying with the flight leader Captain Boyd White in "HELL’S ANGELS", tail number 131615 YA-W. Two other gunners flying with Captain Robert Sands in "MISTER FIVE BY FIVE",131612 YA-Z, joined in the air battle from their number four position in the low flight. They were Tech Sergeant E.A. Pitts in the waist, and staff Sergeant S.E. Waite firing from his tail gun location. Waite unleashed four hundred rounds of armour piercing, incendiary, and tracer ammunition at the Focke-Wulf fighter and scored hits all over it. The enemy plane with its cockpit shattered, blew up in flames and fell steeply to the ground where it crashed in a fiercely burning heap. Staff Sergeant Waite received full credit for the kill” Chester P. Klier Historian, 386th Bomb Group

Regards
Kristjan

Last edited by Voltaire45; 7th August 2017 at 21:42.
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Old 7th August 2017, 19:22
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: Fw-190 shot down on 19th of September 1943 over Belgium

Hello Kristjan,

on this attack were involved 5 FW 190 of 8./JG 26 (= Führungsstaffel Stab/JG 26), 43 Bf 109 of III./JG 26 and 13 FW 190 of I./JG 26.
The only German loss was the Bf 109 G-6 16386 III./JG 26 near Poperinghe. The pilot Lt Ernst Todt was killed.

Sources:
Gen.Qu. loss report from September 22, 1943 and the chronicle of Josef Priller "J.G.26 Geschichte eines Jagdgeschwaders".

Regards
Leo
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Old 7th August 2017, 21:59
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Re: Fw-190 shot down on 19th of September 1943 over Belgium

Thank you for the information Leo.

There are two accounts of possible planes shot down in the mission description from that day.
The other one is the following:

“The waist gunner in number six position ship was Staff Sergeant Billie B. Boyd, Jr. He was flying with Flight Officer Durward Casey in ship 131832 RU-U. Boyd picked up the fighter and was leading it perfectly as his single waist gun rattled off some fifty rounds at 400 yards. There was a violent explosion—what had been a sleek FW-190 fighter plane an instant before was now reduced to a bunch of junk airplane parts raining down on the Belgian Countryside! Staff Sergeant Boyd received full credit for destroying a FW-190” Chester P. Klier Historian, 386th Bomb Group.

The Bf 109 could have been misidentified as Fw 190 and be the one of Lt Ernst Todt.

Regards
Kristjan

Last edited by Voltaire45; 7th August 2017 at 22:38.
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Old 7th August 2017, 22:21
ClinA-78 ClinA-78 is offline
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Re: Fw-190 shot down on 19th of September 1943 over Belgium

It is said Ernst Todt was fatally wounded and crash-landed.
However hard to match with a mid-air explosion.

ClinA-78
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Old 7th August 2017, 22:46
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Re: Fw-190 shot down on 19th of September 1943 over Belgium

Thank you for the information ClinA-78.
Yes, it seems it does not match to the latter event then.

Regards
Kristjan
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Old 8th August 2017, 10:12
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Re: Fw-190 shot down on 19th of September 1943 over Belgium

What seems strange to me is that according to description from that day in the book JG 26 Luftwaffe Fighter Wing War Diary: 1943-45 by Donald Caldwell, the geschwader formations where unable to make contact with the bombers.
The third gruppe seems to have engaged the spitfire escort of No. 41 squadron over Poperinghe, claiming 3 victories and it is speculated that one of those spitfires shot down the Bf 109 of Lt. Ernst Todt.

According to the mission description, which can be read on the following website: http://www.b26.com/historian/chester_klier/025.htm? The fighters seem to have made several attacks on the formation.
Pictures show the damage caused by the attacks.
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Old 8th August 2017, 12:39
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is online now
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Re: Fw-190 shot down on 19th of September 1943 over Belgium

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltaire45 View Post
What seems strange to me is that according to description from that day in the book JG 26 Luftwaffe Fighter Wing War Diary: 1943-45 by Donald Caldwell, the geschwader formations where unable to make contact with the bombers.

According to the mission description, which can be read on the following website: http://www.b26.com/historian/chester_klier/025.htm? The fighters seem to have made several attacks on the formation.
Pictures show the damage caused by the attacks.
The JG 26 books says JG 26 did not make contact with the bombers, but JG 2 was also involved in the air battles of this day. It is supposed to be more west, but still a possibility.

According to the database of Luftwaffe summary losses, JG 2 lost this day three aircraft shot down by enemy aircraft (one each of I./JG 2, 11./JG 2 and 12./JG 2) and three destroyed on the ground (two of 10./JG 2 and one of 11./JG 2).

The only known German claims are two Spitfires claimed by Major Egon Mayer of Stab JG 2 E and N of Evreux (by the way 308 Sqn lost two Spitfires in this area to German fighters).
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Old 8th August 2017, 14:59
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Re: Fw-190 shot down on 19th of September 1943 over Belgium

Thank you for the information Laurent. As you say the formation could well have been attacked by JG 2.
If anyone has any information on these three aircraft losses (pilot names) that day by JG 2 it would be highly appreciated.

Regards
Kristjan
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Old 8th August 2017, 19:48
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: Fw-190 shot down on 19th of September 1943 over Belgium

Hello Kristjan,

here is the German sight of the events on September 19, 1943.
Major Egon Mayer of Stab/JG 2 claimed two Spitfires on Sept 22, 1943 1717 hrs and 1720 hrs east of Lisieux, not on Sept 19, 1943 (see post #7). On this day the Luftwaffe claimed four Spitfires and had four Bf 109 losses, but no losses of FW 190, in contradiction to the American reports.

At noon the Marauder formation was recalled due to weather. The half of the 386th BG and all 36 of the 387th BG returned, the remaining 18 B-26 of the 386th BG hit Lille-Nord airfield escorted by Spitfire Squadrons (Ramrod No. 232/I). They encountered the FW 190 and Bf 109 of JG 26 (see post #2) but no fighters of the JG 2.

Three Spitfire losses were claimed by
Uffz Gerd Wiegand 8./JG 26 1240 hrs
Hptm Klaus Mietusch Stab III./JG 26 1246 hrs
Hptm Karl Borris Stab I./JG 26 1252 hrs.

One Bf 109 loss: Lt Ernst Todt Stab III./JG 26 Bf 109 G-6 16386 near Poperinghe 1240 hrs.

In the afternoon 72 B-26 of 222nd and 323rd BG were dispatched to the Merville airfield but they were recalled due to weather. But 15 Mitchell of 226 Sqn bombed a petrochemical factory near Béthune, escorted by some Spitfire Squadrons (Ramrod No. 233/ I and II). In the area west of Calais they encountered the I. and II./JG 2 and parts of JG 26 (43 Bf 109 and 30 FW 190). The escort fighters prevented a contact to the bombers.

One Spitfire loss was claimed by Lt Fritz Karch 6./JG 2 1830 hrs.

Three Bf 109 losses, pilots N.N.:
4./JG 2 Bf 109 G-6 20664 emergency landing near Arras, 20%
4./JG 2 Bf 109 G-6 20601 belly landing near Epinoy, 65%
III./JG 2 Bf 109 G-6 15220 belly landing near Monchy-Breton, 20%.


Sources:
Tony Wood lists “OKL Fighter Claims” and “RAF & US Fighter Commands with annotated text. Issue I 1943”
Jagdfliegerverbände Teil 10/III and Teil 10/IV
Loss reports of Gen.Qu. from September 22, 1943 No. 11-13 and 15

Regards
Leo
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Old 9th August 2017, 11:49
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Re: Fw-190 shot down on 19th of September 1943 over Belgium

Thank you very much for your help Leo.

Regards
Kristjan
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