Luftwaffe personnel and Nazi-party membership

[Andrey Dikov]

>I cannot say much about Iraq, but look at Russia, plenty of Russians, those who managed to, emmigrated.

And there were plenty, who not. I respect those great emmigrants and white army members in general, but I think one should have more boldness not to leave your country and fatherland, whatever regime is ruling.


>Comparison to Poland is even more a nonsense. Large partisan units were finally defeated in the late 1940s but minor ones continued combat up until 1957. The last Polish partisan was killed in combat in 1963! There were mass protests in 1956, 1970, 1976 and 1980. Marius, when have you left Kattowitz (as you presumably preffer to call Katowice) that you managed to forget it?
Do we have anything like that in NSGermany? No.

May be that's because Polish communists didn't eliminated Polish people by millions?


>Then, post-war, every German was against the Hitler, and now the one may have impression the Germans were actual victims of the war.

Here I would join your point of view, but I don't think that other discussion members really disputing with you in this matter.

[odybvig]

To Franek

Nobody has ever said that you stated that all Germans were NS supporters
It was said that you more or less indicate it. BIG DIFFERENCE.
That you dont understand the difference is really no big surprise.
And its clear that political history is not your strongest topic. Its best that you stick to the one thing you know; Polish WWII aviation history

Olve

[Ruy Horta]

Well Franek isn't isolated when he forget about the strong opposition on the Left before and while the Nazis came to power. To assume that all those German communists etc simply changed their views is rather simplistic.

Paradoxically it was a strong Communist political force that drove many in the center towards the Nazis, towards the extreme right.

[Franek Grabowski]

Andrey

And there were plenty, who not. I respect those great emmigrants and white army members in general, but I think one should have more boldness not to leave your country and fatherland, whatever regime is ruling.

Well, not everybody could. A future wife of my grand-grand uncle managed to in the late 1920s and I am not awared she ever wanted to return to Russia, at least under Soviet rule. Certainly, decision to emmigrate was a drastic one, especially having in mind that majority kept Russian tradition. Nonetheless judging by approach to Polish veterans, I have no doubt that their decision was fully justified. Dead men have no voice.

May be that's because Polish communists didn't eliminated Polish people by millions?

They would have to extreminate the whole nation. The situation here was very tense and dense.
This is not the point however, the point is that we have nothing like that in the Germany, where there was no such terror like under Soviet rule.

Here I would join your point of view, but I don't think that other discussion members really disputing with you in this matter.

I agree but this is linked, I mean the German post-war propaganda and the current view of the situation in NS Germany. You see, there was no problem to overpaint swastikas in protest against removing old unit's badge but that was all, they have protested against.
The general situation was just accepted.

Olve

Nobody has ever said that you stated that all Germans were NS supporters

Thank you.

It was said that you more or less indicate it. BIG DIFFERENCE.

It was said by you. Re-read what I have written.

That you dont understand the difference is really no big surprise.
And its clear that political history is not your strongest topic. Its best that you stick to the one thing you know; Polish WWII aviation history

Well, pointing out who were bad guys is lack of knowledge of political history? I am afraid that you have never seen any intel reports about internal situation in wartime Germany. I did.

Ruy

Well Franek isn't isolated when he forget about the strong opposition on the Left before and while the Nazis came to power. To assume that all those German communists etc simply changed their views is rather simplistic.

Paradoxically it was a strong Communist political force that drove many in the center towards the Nazis, towards the extreme right.

You are entirely correct but one point. I wrote that Germans of all relligions supported the regime in some way and not that they were all supporting it.
Still, with the communists the situation is much more complicated. In mid-late 1930s plenty of communists from eg. Poland or Germany were called to Moscow and then either executed or jailed. During the early stages of WWII, up until Barbarossa, communists actually supported the Germans, either sabotaging industrial effort in France and UK or cooperating in combat with national opposition/underground in occupied countries.
Only after German attack communists turned against Germany but still it was not a very significant group, although perhaps most significant of all of them. What is important, they were not a national opposition, and in general, communists were working against their respective countries. Thus, we still do not have any substantial national German opposition. They either supported regime or kept silent with the same effect.

[Marius]

To Franek:

They either supported regime or kept silent with the same effect.

Nothing unusual. And it is not a typical German behaviour, but human one. This happens everywhere on this Earth and everytime, even now in this particular moment. Also in Poland.
By the way, Hitler had to be killed over 40 or 50 times. This is much more than happened against other dictators or regimes. It is not fair writing about lack of opposition in Germany.

Regards,
Marius

[Primoz]

I'd like to point out thet the Nazis never really won a free election. They only won relative majorities, the highest being 43.9% on 5-March-1933 when they were already on power (a pretty low figure by Lukashenko's standards, isn't it?) - but then they made sure there were no more elections ...

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi Guys,

My understanding has been that forces created by the Nazis themselves tended to have younger age profiles and correspondingly higher Party membership. This includes the Luftwaffe. Given that many (perhaps most?) new pilots came to the Luftwaffe via the NSFK, this need not be surprising. Both Luftwaffe and Italian paratroops reportedly had unusually high representations from the Nazi and Fascist youth movements. This seems to have been a general phenomenon. Armed services inherited from previous regimes seem to have been less penetrated by party members.

Cheers,

Sid.