Question about Me 262 Wnr. 900284

[jarecki71]

Hi All,
I have a question about this case, and so I found the documents about the alleged Soviet shooting down Me 262 Wnr. 900284 I KG(J)54 19.02 45 in the region - Küstrin? Soviet pilot Kozedub
Is this correct claim of shooting down?
In my humble opinion, something's not right.
Please, any explanation of the matter.
Best Regards,
Jarek

[Norbert Schuchbauer]

This is not a Me 262 WNr. There were no losses of a Me 262 in this area. At least to my knowledge.

Norbert

[Dan O'Connell]

There were no 900 series WN of Me262's. All unknown Me262's were assigned a 900 number on my very old Me262 list on the Storm Birds web site in order to track and categorize them. Fifteen years later, I STILL see people using 900 numbers as if they are real. Chuck Petrie (RIP) and I used to get a good laugh out of it. We stated quite plainly why a 900 number was used, but the information was still posted every where on the internet as if it was their own work.

[Stig Jarlevik]

All

If we disregard the WNr it is quite correct that Ivan Kozhedub claimed a Me 262 on Feb 19th. at least if we are to believe the Russians Valery Dymich and Viktor Kulikov who speculate that it may have been Uffz Kurt Lange from 1./KG(J) 54 who was shot down.

However (seems it always is) Smith/Creek state that Lange was lost on Feb 15th and of course claim that Feb 15th was the date of Kozhedub's Me 262 claim, but also make a note that "another edition of Kozhedub's autobiography gives the date of action as Feb 24."

Dan, in his Production log book, favours the dates Feb 15th and Feb19th as a back up....

Since Me 262s were lost on all three dates, I presume all I can say is that Kozhedub after all seems to have claimed a Me 262...., but which one?....

Cheers
Stig

[Merlin]

Jarek,

I'm afraid the story: Soviet pilot Kozedub shot down a Me 262 at the Eastern Front near Küstrin on 19.02.45 (or on 15.02. or 24.02) is one of the many post war fairytales that were created after some beers, Wodkas or Whiskys.

- The whole KG(J)54 was intended for home defence duties, it was not active at the Eastern Front.

- Uffz. Kurt Lange died in a crash near Bad Mergentheim (south of Würzburg) on a ferry flight.

- All Me 262 losses at the three dates mentioned above happened in Southern or Western Germany. The only one more to the East was a crash by FlÜG 1 near Brielow, some 80km west of Berlin.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Could well be Merlin

Just so you remember, we are talking about a claim, not verification.

Fact is the claim still stands and the victory is listed "officially" (I don't know how official this is Military wise in either the former Soviet Union or todays Russia) in his total claims.

Personally I am not able to verify (if we forget units etc) what every Me 262 built until that date was doing on either days listed, so I leave that out of the equation.

Neither am I am in any position to find out if Kozhedub's original claim documents have survived and what they actually say. Do you?

However it is interesting that you bring up the topic of Kozhedub's honesty since the German top ace Hartmann lately also got his share of criticism for his claim performance.... Care to elaborate on the topic? Would be interesting to know when the story about the Me 262 began, if it was not there from the beginning. It is also obvious the Russians themselves believe in Kozhedub's honesty, so where did they go wrong and when?

Cheers
Stig

[Pilot]

Here is mentioned this claim:

http://topwar.ru/37558-etalon-1944-goda-la-7.html

[Frank Olynyk]

Mikail Bykov's recently published (January) book, Vse Asy Stalina (All Stalin's Aces) does not list any Me-262 victories for Kozhedub. The entry for February 17, 1945 is for an Me-109, with a footnote (which I cannot read) referencing the Me-262 and the date of February 19, 1945. Perhaps one of our Russian readers can translate the footnote.

Enjoy!

Frank.

[Ota Jirovec]

Hello Frank,

The translation of the footnote from Mikhail Bykov´s latest book should roughly read as follows: "in operational documents listed as "Me 109 with jet engine", subsequently changed to Me 262. The date of the combat recorded erroneously as 19 February 1945."

If I recall correctly, there were some quite long discussions about Kozhedub´s Me 262 claim on one of the Russian aviation history forums in the past, where Mikhail Bykov also posted the excerpt from 176 GIAP operational summary describing Kozhedub´s combat with "Me 109, presumably with a jet engine" on 17 February 1945. I will try to find it somewhere in my files and post it here as well. Or perhaps some of our Russian friends can help?

Hope this helps a little,

Ota

[Stig Jarlevik]

Frank/Ota

Thanks, and interestingly a fourth date now enters the equation.
The 19th was obviously the date Kozhedub himself preferred....

Would be interesting to know if the 17th is final!

Cheers
Stig