Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 29th October 2018, 19:43
BrianC BrianC is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 608
BrianC is on a distinguished road
Oblt Martin Mossdorf I./StG.3

Hi guys

Oblt Mossdorf led a Stuka attack against the aircraft carrier HMS Indomitable during the Pedestal convoy 12 August 1942. Apparently he had strict orders to avoid warships and to only target the merchant ships. He disobeyed orders, and was later summoned to Rome to explain his actions to Kesselring. However, rather than a court-martial he was promoted and awarded the Knights Cross.

Is this correct?

Cheers
Brian
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 30th October 2018, 23:13
BrianC BrianC is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 608
BrianC is on a distinguished road
Re: Oblt Martin Mossdorf I./StG.3

Hi guys

No comments?

I'm surprised!

Here's hoping!

Cheers
Brian
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 30th October 2018, 23:20
Chris Goss's Avatar
Chris Goss Chris Goss is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 11,236
Chris Goss has a spectacular aura aboutChris Goss has a spectacular aura about
Re: Oblt Martin Mossdorf I./StG.3

Nothing in the RK book-what is your source?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 30th October 2018, 23:23
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 7,534
edwest2 will become famous soon enoughedwest2 will become famous soon enough
Re: Oblt Martin Mossdorf I./StG.3

Hope this helps:


https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknF...C3%9Fdorf.html
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 30th October 2018, 23:33
Chris Goss's Avatar
Chris Goss Chris Goss is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 11,236
Chris Goss has a spectacular aura aboutChris Goss has a spectacular aura about
Re: Oblt Martin Mossdorf I./StG.3

Wikipedia has no source quoted......
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 30th October 2018, 23:35
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 7,534
edwest2 will become famous soon enoughedwest2 will become famous soon enough
Re: Oblt Martin Mossdorf I./StG.3

Citations

  1. Fellgiebel 2000, p. 258.

Bibliography

  • Brütting, Georg (1992) [1976]. Das waren die deutschen Stuka-Asse 1939 – 1945 [These were the German Stuka Aces 1939 – 1945] (in German) (7th ed.). Stuttgart, Germany: Motorbuch. ISBN 978-3-87943-433-6.
  • Fellgiebel, Walther-Peer (2000) [1986]. Die Träger des Ritterkreuzes des Eisernen Kreuzes 1939–1945 — Die Inhaber der höchsten Auszeichnung des Zweiten Weltkrieges aller Wehrmachtteile [The Bearers of the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross 1939–1945 — The Owners of the Highest Award of the Second World War of all Wehrmacht Branches] (in German). Friedberg, Germany: Podzun-Pallas. ISBN 978-3-7909-0284-6.
  • Patzwall, Klaus D.; Scherzer, Veit (2001). Das Deutsche Kreuz 1941 – 1945 Geschichte und Inhaber Band II [The German Cross 1941 – 1945 History and Recipients Volume 2] (in German). Norderstedt, Germany: Verlag Klaus D. Patzwall. ISBN 978-3-931533-45-8.
  • Scherzer, Veit (2007). Die Ritterkreuzträger 1939–1945 Die Inhaber des Ritterkreuzes des Eisernen Kreuzes 1939 von Heer, Luftwaffe, Kriegsmarine, Waffen-SS, Volkssturm sowie mit Deutschland verbündeter Streitkräfte nach den Unterlagen des Bundesarchives [The Knight's Cross Bearers 1939–1945 The Holders of the Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross 1939 by Army, Air Force, Navy, Waffen-SS, Volkssturm and Allied Forces with Germany According to the Documents of the Federal Archives] (in German). Jena, Germany: Scherzers Militaer-Verlag. ISBN 978-3-938845-17-2.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 31st October 2018, 07:41
Chris Goss's Avatar
Chris Goss Chris Goss is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 11,236
Chris Goss has a spectacular aura aboutChris Goss has a spectacular aura about
Re: Oblt Martin Mossdorf I./StG.3

Do any of these references give any credence to the story of the attack? This is what the Chronik des Seekreiges says:


12.8.: Bei Angriffsversuch gegen die zurückmarschierende Furious wird das ital. U-Boot Dagabur (Kptlt. Pecori) vom Zerstörer Wolverine (LtCdr. Gretton) gerammt und versenkt. Das ital. U-Boot Giada (Kptlt. Cavallina) wird von den Sunderland-Flugbooten ,TK7R’ and ,TK7C’ gebombt und beschädigt. Vormittags erfolglose Angriffe von 19 Ju 88 des II. Fliegerkorps, dabei 8 Verluste durch Sea-Hurricanes der brit. Flugzeugträger. Mittags Angriffe von 51 Bombern und 10 Torpedo-Flugzeugen der ital. Luftwaffe, anschließend von 37 dt. Ju 88 mit ital. Jagdschutz. Transporter Deucalion wird beschädigt und bleibt mit Zerstörer Braham zurück. Zwei ital. Re.2001-Jabos greifen Träger Victorious mit panzerbrechenden Bomben an, die aber vom Flugdeck abprallen. Nachmittags werden durch Zerstörer Tartar, Zetland und Pathfindermehrfach U-Boote abgedrängt. Emo schießt einen 4er-Fehlfächer gegen den Zerstörer Lookout, Cobalto wird durch den Zerstörer Ithuriel gerammt, der selbst schwer beschädigt wird. Spätnachmittags Angriff von 29 Ju 87 des I./StG.3 (Hptm. Mossdorf) mit Jagdschutz, die unter 4 eigenen Verlusten 3 schwere Treffer auf dem Träger Indomitable erzielen, der für den Flugbetrieb ausfällt, und von 14 T-Flugzeugen SM 79 der 132 Gruppo (Hptm. U. Rivoli), die den Zerstörer Foresight so schwer beschädigen, daß er später von Tartar versenkt werden muß. Die Deckungsgruppe dreht nach Westen ab. Abends greifen nacheinander die U-Boote Dessié und Axum an. Axum (Kptlt. Ferrini) erzielt je einen Treffer auf den Kreuzern Nigeria,Cairo und dem Tanker Ohio. Die Cairo muß aufgegeben werden, Nigeria tritt mit den Zerstörern Bicester, Wilton und Derwent den Rückmarsch an (Reparatur- Arbeiten bis Juni 1943 in Charleston, USA). Darauf folgt ein Angriff von 30 Ju 88 mit Bomben, denen die Transporter Empire Hope (12.688 BRT) und Glenorchy (8982 BRT) zum Opfer fallen, und 7 He 111 mit Torpedos, die Brisbane Star (12.791 BRT) zum Stoppen bringen. Bei einem Arigriff des ital. U-Bootes Alagi (Kptlt. Puccini) werden der Kreuzer Kenya und der Transporter Clan Ferguson torpediert und beschädigt. Kurz vor Mitternacht versenkt das U-Boot Bronzo (Kptlt. Buldrini) das Wrack der EmpireHope.

Last edited by Chris Goss; 31st October 2018 at 10:10.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 31st October 2018, 16:21
Larry deZeng Larry deZeng is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,616
Larry deZeng will become famous soon enoughLarry deZeng will become famous soon enough
Re: Oblt Martin Mossdorf I./StG.3

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianC View Post
Hi guys

Oblt Mossdorf led a Stuka attack against the aircraft carrier HMS Indomitable during the Pedestal convoy 12 August 1942. Apparently he had strict orders to avoid warships and to only target the merchant ships. He disobeyed orders, and was later summoned to Rome to explain his actions to Kesselring. However, rather than a court-martial he was promoted and awarded the Knights Cross.
Is this correct?
Cheers
Brian
After trawling my way through nearly 1,000 Lw. officer personnel files, I would say that the court-martial claim is probably valid. Threat of court-martial, court-martial, acquittal followed by a complete 180 change of course with promotions and decorations was not uncommon, surprisingly.

L.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 31st October 2018, 16:44
Chris Goss's Avatar
Chris Goss Chris Goss is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 11,236
Chris Goss has a spectacular aura aboutChris Goss has a spectacular aura about
Re: Oblt Martin Mossdorf I./StG.3

Larry: ...but apart from Wikepedia, where is the audit trail to prove this?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 31st October 2018, 20:04
Larry deZeng Larry deZeng is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,616
Larry deZeng will become famous soon enoughLarry deZeng will become famous soon enough
Re: Oblt Martin Mossdorf I./StG.3

Chris -

There is none as far as I know and that's why I said "probably". BrianC would have to obtain a copy of Mossdorf's personnel file from BA-MA to be reasonably sure one way or the other. Based on my experience with these files, if an officer had been formally threatened with a courts-martial for disobeying orders there would almost certainly be some mention of it in his records. At least that was my experience in working with these records. On the other hand, if it was just idle gossip or rumor (rumour), then there would be no mention of it in the personnel records.


L.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ZG76 in SdKdo Junck PMoz99 Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 10 29th July 2018 11:15
List of the Legion condor pilots martin66 Pre-WW2 Military and Naval Aviation 15 29th December 2016 12:41
3/22 1939-40 Chris Goss Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 6 8th April 2014 23:16
Nightfighter claims in Febr.1945 Peter Kassak Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 2 6th April 2013 10:12
Staffelkapitäne 7. 8. et 9. /KG 26 martin75 Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 2 6th July 2010 08:42


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 19:10.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net