LeO 45 and 451 shot down by Rudorffer ( JG 2 )

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Hello to all.
Does anyone possess information about what French units flown sorties on the following days with the Leo 45 and Leo 451? Which were the losses? There are a match for the claims submitted by Erich Rudorffer?
1-17/05/40 - one LeO 45 at 13:28hs at La Capelle-en-Tierarche
2-06/06/40 - one LeO 451 at 20:15hs at Roye

Glad in advance to all

Adriano

[CJE]

17.05.40: Groupement n° 6 (GB II/12 and I/31) which lost 2 a/c to fighters and 2 to flak.
Shot down by fighters, n° 61 which crashed near Floyon (4 killed) and n° 74 à Rogecourt (crew safe), both of GB I/31.

06.06.40: two missions around 3 and 4 pm (French time) in this area.
- n° 271 of II/31 shot down S. Roye; n° 38 of GB II/12 exploded on hitting the ground near Mézières-en-Santerre (the pilot bailed out but was killed by a 109 while floating down the ground); n° 151 of II/12 crashed by Braches; n° 152 shot down near Dompierre.
- n° 150, E. Montdidier; n° 3007, 8 km N. Roye; n° 3022, 10 km NW Roye; n° 183 by Bf 110. All a/c are from GB I/11. n° 214 of GB II/23, shot down by flak and 109s near Roye.

On 6th June, JG 1, JG 2 and JG 51 claimed 22 French bombers... about twice the number actually shot down.

[robert]

Hi,

the I/JG2 probably bagged three LeO451 from the GBI/11 on the 06.06.40.

Regards

Robert

[CJE]

Considering that both missions were carried out in a short span of time and on the same area, I'd be cautious before drawing any conclusion.

[robert]

Hi,

it`s strange because the Germans claimed their victories in two packs:
- around 16.50-17.20 JG1,JG51,I/JG27 (LeO451)
- after 20.00 I/JG2 (and Martin 167 bombers - actually two Martin 167 were lost both to Flak - or more?)
Beside LeO451 planes the French lost also three Br.693 to fighters (to the I/JG51?). It`s really strange...Could you tell us which LeO451 unit was earlier in the air and which later?

Regards

Robert

[CJE]

Breguet 693:
- GBA I/51, 8 a/c take-off at 1430; lost 1 to fighters.
- GBA II/54, 8 a/c take-off at 1500; lost 1 to fighters another being severly damaged.
Both groups attacked AFVs near Chaulnes.

Martin 167F:
- GB I/62 and II/62, 15 a/c take-off at 18.30; lost 1 to flak another being damaged.
Attacked AFVs between Roye and Péronne.

As for the LeOs, I have to check my notes. Will come back later on this topic.

[CJE]

There was a

[CJE]

There was a time difference of one hour between France and Germany, but I assume you already took it into account.

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Hello to all. This is what I found on the subject:
06/06/1940 French losses:

Groupement n° 6
LeO 451 271 GB II/31 by fighters (Bf 109 or Bf 110)
LeO 451 38 GB II/12 by Bf 109
LeO 451 151 GB II/12 by fighters (Bf 109 or Bf 110)
LeO 451 152 GB II/12 by fighters (Bf 109 or Bf 110)

Groupement n° 7
LeO 451 150 GB I/11 by Bf 109
LeO 451 3007 GB I/11 by Bf 109
LeO 451 3022 GB I/11 by Bf 109
LeO 451 183 GB I/11 damaged by Bf 110
LeO 451 214 GB II/23 by Flak & Bf 109
LeO 451 260 GB II/23 by Flak

Groupement n° 1
M.167F 147 GB I/62 shot down by Flak
M.167F 25 I/62 damaged by Flak
M.167F 75 I/62 damaged by Bf 110

GBA
Breguet 693 27 GBA I/51 by fighters
Breguet 693 63 GBA I/51 by fighters
Breguet 693 29 GBA II/54 by fighters
Breguet 693 1013 GBA II/54 damaged by fighters

I found very interesting the claims on Martin Glenn 167 F; but only one was certainly lost. Yes, there was a difference of one hour between the Germans and the Allied ( French and British time was the same ).
Which unit of BF 110 was involved? It is sad that there is no TIME of action...on those DATA.
Do you know guys which were the objetctives of the French Bombers?
Glad to all who answered and shared their information! Very kind of yours!
Cheers.

[CJE]

Do you know guys which were the objetctives of the French Bombers?

Yes, I gave them in a previous post.