The Eagles Over Europe Project

[Larry Hickey]

Paul,

Disregard my PM to you about these images. I see that they are all from expired eBay auctions. Is it possible that the caption "St Pol" came with the last two posted images and not the first one?

[Dénes Bernád]

I looked through my photos, and the series of photos that I remembered showing a similarly crashed Hs 123 in France turned out to be L2+LM.

However, I did find another photo that actually shows +DP, but in a different position (the wreck was probably turned around). Sadly, on the verso it's written only: "Abgeschossener Aufklärer". Notice the round squadron emblem on the nose.

Will keep looking...

[ouidjat]

Originally Posted by ClinA-78

It doesn't look like Saint-Géry / Villeroux landscape (1st Pic)

ClinA-78

Neither like Villerot.

but watching with Google street's help it's crazy how much it looks like it's written on Larry's picture; i.e. Montdidier surroundings.

Regards, Franck.

[obdl3945]

Hi, Larry...

I have the location attached to the first image only, on the left. Please note that where I have several images of the same aircraft, I tend to log information against the one I number first so the rest are simply consecutively numbered. In my defence, if there is any query or contradictory information, I do make a note and on occasion where a location may differ, I tend to log a note against that particular image even if it's not the first in the set. So far, I've not had any additional information to suggest the latter two images depict an aircraft at a different location to that in the first two images.

My personal opinion concurs with Dénes' comment (and additional excellent photo ) that this aircraft has been moved somewhat over a period of time. Of the four images I posted, I am now confident they are all the same aircraft; from the left, images 1, 3 and 4 have the propellor at the same angle; image 2 just about shows the tip of the blade as it curves back over the cowling. In 2 and 3, there is a panel of the fuselage which is raised and looks 'lined'. The same panel can be seen from the outside in image 1 as the raised portion of the fuselage cross. The propellor centre is in the same shade in all images where it can be seen and finally, the treeline in the background of 2 and 3 would appear to match that in Dénes' image.

Given all of the above, I do think it is the same aircraft in all images and therefore the location would apply to all.

Regards,

Paul

[Larry Hickey]

Paul et.al.,

Thanx for your help. The photos that you posted are all the same aircraft and crash: L2+DP. The problem is that we have about four place locations for it from various photo captions posted on eBay. St Pol is one of them, but there are actually no crashes in NE France during May-June that fit that area and 6 Staffel. The most likely incidents took place in central Belgium for 6.(S)/LG2 around the middle of May. So these captions have made the actual identity of this crash quite problematic. I have at least a dozen different photos of this crash in the EoE DB now, including these four, and we've now confirmed a W.Nr. for L2+DP, but still not the date and location. This wreck was considerably disturbed over the course of the various photos, including being entirely turned over, but they are all the same incident. Perhaps this was done to remove the trapped body of a deceased pilot. The backgrounds are identical.

[Pieter H]

Larry, back to your first question, I would say from the picture that the RH-L was the L5527. But that serial doesn't appear in any of my listings, so as always not 100% sure.

Regards, Pieter

[Larry Hickey]

Pieter,

Thanx, I'll make sure that this gets passed on to the FB Team that is working on this part of the EoE Project. Will let you know what they think.

[Martin Gleeson]

Pieter,

You are correct about L5527 as it never saw service in France nor with any operational squadron.
If you can read part of the serial as 'L552.' then it is probably L5526 which was apparently destroyed or badly damaged on 10 May 1940. On Larry's photo I think the last two digits could be '77' but this cannot be correct as no 88 Squadron Fairey Battle serial number ended with that combination.

How much of the serial number in Larry's photo can you see ?

Regards,

Martin.

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

I've got conflicting information on the career of Oblt Horst Freiherr von Grote for the 1939-40 period. Some reports have him as being appointed Sta Kap of 4.(S)/LG2 26.06.40. He won the RK on 21.07.40, but is not listed in the standard RK reference works. However, there is good reason to believe that he replaced Adolf Galland as Sta Kap of 4 Staffel circa 17.02.40, when Galland transferred from 4 Staffel to the Stab of JG27 and switched from the Hs123 to flying the Bf109.

Does anyone know if v. Grote's FB has survived, or if there is any other documentation of him taking over from Galland when he left that unit?

I know that all the standard reference works and even his personnel records have Galland as the Sta Kap of 5.(S)/LG2 during this period, but that info is wrong. His FB from 08.39 through 02.40 makes it certain that he was the Sta Kap of 4 Staffel, not 5 Staffel. Hptm Otto Weiss was the Sta Kap of 5 Staffel until the death of the Gr Kdr on 09.09.39, when Weiss apparently moved up to replace him. Again the standard reference works on the career of Weiss apparently have this wrong.

Can anyone clear up the date when someone took over 4 Staffel from Galland and if that was, in fact, von Grote? Can anyone confirm that Hptm Otto Weiss immediately took over the Gruppe when Maj. Spielvogel was KIA on 09 Sept 1939, although some sources have this as late as 12.39. John Weal in his history of the unit (Osprey) says Weiss took over on 10.09.39, and I think that this and our EoE research is correct.

Who can help?

[O.Menu]

Hi Larry,

From my readings I have Neudörffer taking the relay from 14 Sept 39 up to 1 Dec 39 between Spielvogel and Weiss...

And Grotte taking the relay from Galland (J.Weal source I think) but I prefer your version which better explain why 4.(S)/LG2 got the smoking Mickey as emblem :-)

Thanks