Sgt. Zygmunt Klein, 234 Sqn., 15 August 1940

[Martin Gleeson]

Hallo,

Could anyone please confirm if this Polish pilot baled out of or force-landed a Spitfire, probably P9363, on 15 August 1940 ?
I do not have the 234 Squadron Operational Record Book but doubt if it is recorded there. I do not think he was hurt as he claimed his first victory the following day.

Regards,

Martin Gleeson.

[Col Bruggy]

Hello,

On 14 and 15 August (1940), 234 Squadron moved to Middle Wallop from St Eval. After all the AZ-coded Spitfires had reached the new landing ground in the afternoon of 15th, a big German raid approached Swanage. Thirteen Spitfires were scrambled to intercept the bombers, but four of these and three pilots of the squadron were lost. Polish pilot, Sgt Zygmunt Klein, flying Spitfire IA P9363, was shot down, but survived the crash and returned to the unit.

See:
Poles in the Defence of Britain. A Day-by-Day Chronology of Polish Day and Night Fighter Pilot Operations: July 1940 - June 1941.
Gretzyngier,Robert.
London:Grub Street,2001.
p.25

Col.

[Martin Gleeson]

Hallo Col,

Many thanks (again). It does seem from your reply and an answer to another post of mine on the RAF COMMANDS forum that P9363 was a total write-off from this mission on 15 August 1940.

Regards,

Martin.

[Observer1940]

Hello Martin

Unfortunately the numbered original pencil entries in the Hants EP Emergency Chart at Hants CRO logging crashes and incidents on 15th August 1940 have been rubbed out and then written over with fewer incident entries for the day.

The RAF Faygate No. 49 MU ORB, states the salvage date for Spitfire P9363 was 18.8.1940 and they collected the Spitfire from Christchurch, Hants.

The Christchurch ORB states:-

"Christchurch 15.8.40. 17.15 Air Raid warning sounded. Enemy aircraft overhead. One SPITFIRE forced landed badly damaged by enemy action, pilot safe and later flown by aircraft of this station to MIDDLE WALLOP. Guard sent to crashed SPITFIRE in BOURNEMOUTH, pilot killed."

Therefore, Klein must have force landed at Christchurch and this would tally with the location that P9363 was collected from.

If Klein did not bale out at Twyford, who did?

Cleaver baled out at Bishops Waltham according to a letter from the AHB.

Mark

[Martin Gleeson]

Hallo Mark,
.
Got it ! I don't know how but it appears the circumstances around the losses of both Klein and Cleaver's aircraft have become mixed up. Thanks to you mainly, especially for the Christchurch ORB and Cleaver inputs, I believe we can solve this puzzle.
.
It seems clear now from the Christchurch and 49 MU ORBs that P9363 was force-landed in a damaged state by Klein on Christchurch airfield. Also that he was then flown from there to rejoin his unit later that day at their new base at Middle Wallop and that P9363 was salvaged on the 18th by 49 MU. So far so good, but Twyford is a problem as you suggest.
.
Your reference to Cleaver made me look at his loss. Indeed he seems to have been the only pilot to bale out successfully in that area of southern England on August 15th. All four locations given for his bale out and loss of his Hurricane P3232 are 8 miles apart at most. Winchester where the combat took place, Durley and Bishops Waltham over which locations he abandoned the Hurricane, and Lower Upham where he landed by parachute. All are a minimum of 25 miles from Christchurch (town).
.
I then found a note about Cleaver referring to an item about him in the February 2000 issue of 'AEROPLANE (Monthly)', page 79. In the regular Aviation Art section, this time dealing with a painting by John Howard Worsley of the instant when Cleaver's perspex canopy was shattered and just before his bale out. What happened to him after that was most interesting and not in my copies of 'MEN of the BATTLE of BRITAIN' (1989 and 1993). Hence the reason I noted it. But the real gem was the line "He landed near Twyford village."
.
Twyford is between Winchester and the other three locations mentioned above, actually about 2 miles south of the former. So for reasons unknown Cleaver's parachute landing site became mixed up with Klein's forced landing at Christchurch airfield.
Where exactly did Cleaver's P3232 crash I wonder ? That would be most interesting to learn ! Still another part of the puzzle to solve.
.
Likewise the exact history of Klein's P9363 after 15.8.1940 is still unclear. Part of the 'AEROMILITARIA' entry seems incorrect (the 50 MU and 92 Squadron references at least).
.
Many thanks Mark for helping to sort out what happened to P9363 on 15 August 1940. Great working with you !
.
Regards,
.
Martin.

[Observer1940]

Hello Martin

RAF Faygate, No. 49 Maintenance Unit collected Cleaver's aircraft on 17.8.1940 and their ORB states regarding collection of aircraft:-

"Faygate 17.8.40. Hurricane P3232 at Bishops Waltham."

I made a Press appeal in 2001 and received a headed letter from British Airports Authority Southampton who it seems must have contacted the AHB, as an extract of a letter (with top and bottom torn off) and photocopies of ORB pages relating to another crash were enclosed.

I can't put my fingers on Cleaver's Combat Report at the moment (as I have no detailed file index), my memory is a bit poor and that is why I decided in 2004 that everything I came across relating to 14th and 15th August relating to Eastleigh / Southampton area, must either be noted, photocopied or photographed, even published accounts that disagree with the actual records and even where Bomber Command Loss Cards (which Chorley must have used in part) disagree with ORBs and with the past help of the AHB, have been ironing out what is correct and what bits (discovered so far) are not, including searching for additional official records, such as Anti-aircraft Unit War Diaries in WO 166 series, other RAF Units, RAF Stations, O. Corps, Fire Brigade, British Telecom Archives, Coastguard Log, GRO Death Certs and anything official I can get my hands on, in public archives, or private hands. Relatives can usually get help from Undertakers records too, to see what they recorded.

Did you realise that some aircraft 'claimed' to have been shot down, were not actually shot down?

According to examples I have uncovered, what actually happened was that during the evasive manoeuvre, some bomber and fighter aircraft suffered structural failure and although published and official sources put them as shot down or enemy action, they were lost due to structural failure, which occurred while the aircraft was attempting to get out of the way of firing or searchlights!

However, back to the letter extract for Cleaver it states:- "Hurricane P3232 piloted by Flying Officer Gordon Neil Spencer Cleaver (90135) of 601 Squadron crashed near Bishops Waltham. He survived the crash."

Mark

[Martin Gleeson]

Hallo Mark,

Very interesting details concerning Cleaver's P3232, for which my thanks.
So perhaps at this point we can say he baled out over Durley, landed by parachute near Twyford or Lower Upham and his Hurricane crashed at Bishops Waltham.

That is quite a range of sources available to you, many of which I will never see unfortunately.

Regards,

Martin.

[Larry]

According to a local Christchurch historian Klein's Spitfire P9363 was rammed by an RAF truck when it landed at Christchurch on 15th Aug 1940.

This was either because the driver did not expect it to appear on the grass as he drove over the airfield or that he thought it was an enemy aircraft!

I'll try and find out more!

[Martin Gleeson]

Thanks Larry,

Will be interested to see what else you can find. It is these little details that make the events so fascinating.

Regards,

Martin.

[Observer1940]

Hello Larry and Martin

The RAF Faygate No. 49 MU ORB, states only the salvage place as Christchurch, Hants and date when Inspectors were sent and crews to salve for Spitfire P9363 as 18.8.1940.

The Christchurch ORB states:-

"Christchurch 15.8.40. 17.15 Air Raid warning sounded. Enemy aircraft overhead. One SPITFIRE forced landed badly damaged by enemy action, pilot safe and later flown by aircraft of this station to MIDDLE WALLOP. Guard sent to crashed SPITFIRE in BOURNEMOUTH, pilot killed."

According to Larry's additional information, Klein's aircraft was struck by a lorry as well?

I keep meaning to request both sides of the AM 78 Aircraft Card.

I think the RAF Museum also has RAF vehicle cards? Perhaps these can shed further light?

Mark