crash B-17 F , 42-30636

[manniw]

I am doing research on the crash of the B-17, 42-30636 on March 2, 1944 in Sieglar near Siegburg/Germany. The entire crew was killed.
Various sources state that the cause of the crash was “shot down by enemy fighter”. However, I cannot find any relevant documents or information about this. I only have the German daily report of the flak, which documents a shot at a B-17 near Sieglar at 1:04 p.m. According to KU-1040, the crash occurred at 1:00 p.m. Both times are roughly correct.
All the fighter shooting data is completely wrong. Does anyone have any information that could confirm that the B-17 was ultimately shot down by a fighter?
Thank you for your help, says the Luftkriegsarchiv-Koeln.de.
Manni

[edwest2]

Hello,


A word of caution. Nothing is final until all research is completed. I suggest getting the MACR for this incident.


30636 (MSN 5750) Amarillo Field, TX 2Jul43. North Atlantic Wing, Air Transport Command, Presque Isle Field, ME 17Aug43. 327th Bomb Squadron [UX*Y], 92nd Bomb Group, Alconbury (Station 102), Huntingdonshire 31Aug43. Failed to return from a mission to the railway marshalling yards at Frankfurt am Main, Germany 2Mar44 (10KIA). Shot down by enemy fighters, crashed between Sieglar & Siegburg, Germany. MACR 2853.

Source: joebaugher.com

[manniw]

Hi edwest2,
I have already searched through everything, MACR, Flak reports, archives in Siegburg and everything else I could find about the crew on the web. But nowhere could I find an answer as to whether the B-17 was really shot down by a fighter. I am now ready to believe that someone has made this claim at some point and everyone else has written it off. I've been doing this for a few years and have seen it happen several times.... That's why I asked the experts here. And that's why I can only agree with your warning.
Greetings
Manni

[Buckeye30]

Hi Manni. This is the 92nd mission report for 2 March Mission 244; as you see she was "believed" shot down by Flak. Not seen to be followed down by fighters.......


Nick


https://www.92ndbg.org/wp-content/up...ion-Report.pdf

[manniw]

Hi Nick,
thanks for the mission report. Unfortunately, it doesn't really tell us anything other than that it's “probable” that it was shot down by flak....
Thanks again,
Manni

[edwest2]

Originally Posted by Buckeye30

Hi Manni. This is the 92nd mission report for 2 March Mission 244; as you see she was "believed" shot down by Flak. Not seen to be followed down by fighters.......


Nick


https://www.92ndbg.org/wp-content/up...ion-Report.pdf

Given the uncertainty and the mention of cloud cover, this one may remain unknown as to the actual cause. A typical mission includes multiple aircraft and if flak was seen, a tentative conclusion of flak as the reason for the loss. However, just because flak was encountered, there is still a chance that enemy aircraft were there who may have also taken advantage of cloud cover to operate.

[FrankieS]

Hi, all,



is the exact crash site known ? (asking just for my U.S. MACR Excel crash database).
I suppose Troisdorf or Menden (as situated 'between Sieglar and Siegburg') ?
bye,


FrankieS

[Rottler]

Hello FrankieS,

the exact crash site was the west exit of Sieglar (Westausgang von Sieglar), so neither Troisdorf nor Menden.
Source: a blank of the Fliegerhorstkommandantur Köln-Ostheim dated 4 March 1944 in the German file KU 1040.
There are also noted:
crash time of a Boing Fortress II 13.00 hrs on 2 March 1944;
markings and serial unknown,
kind of capture (flak or fighter) unknown,
destruction 98%.

Regards
Leo

[Heuser]

Dear all,


at least the claims of 4., 6./schw. Flak Abt. 245 as well as 1., 4. and 5./schw. Flak Abt. 331 around 1300 hrs for this a/c were confirmed.

The only confimed claim by fighters in this area was/c 42-39944 of 305.BG, 366.BS by Lt. Karl Willius of 2./JG 26, propably Hptm. Hermann Staiger of 12./JG 26 was also involved - but one hour earlier...

[FrankieS]

thank you so much, Leo !