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  #11  
Old 17th January 2023, 15:21
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader

Johannes

Very interesting lists
Out of curiosity I wonder why you put JG 25 under others while JG 50 comes under Tagjacht?
I always thought they were formed for the same job.
Also EJG 2 ends up under Tagjacht while EJG 1 is located under others.

Any reason for that?

Cheers
Stig
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  #12  
Old 17th January 2023, 15:34
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Alfred.MONZAT Alfred.MONZAT is offline
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Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader

Very valuable contribution as usual.I am little surprised by JG 302 having more victories than JG 301 considering its shorter lifespan.
Also the 15 victories for the Luftbeostaffeln make me wish for an history of these shadowing units.
Can you tell us more about the two victories from the ferry flight unit FLUG 1?
And lastly, what is JGr.ZBK?
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  #13  
Old 17th January 2023, 16:47
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knusel knusel is offline
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Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader

Good evening Gentlemen,

I agree. These a very appealing lists and I will have a good time working them through and cross-checking them with equipment data.

Thanks and praise to Johannes for sharing!

Michael
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  #14  
Old 17th January 2023, 16:55
Johannes Johannes is offline
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Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader

Hi Guys

Firstly my old friend Stig.

I didn't know the purpose of JG 25(by memory one of the claimants was Herbert Ihlefeld, but I do know the JG 50 flew special high altitude Bf109's to get at Mosquitos.

Others, just clumped together obscure units to save time.

Secondly Alfred

Have not a clue what FLUG 1 was. Take you word for it, but claims were:-

3(sud)./FLUG 1 2nd November 1944 P-51 by ogefr Böhm north of Mansfeld 1245 hrs 2000 metres altiude
4(sud)./FLUG 1 23rd March 1944 B-17 by Fw Goebel 1130 hrs 5200 metres.

Luftbeostaffel Most but not all claims at night. Twelve claimants, two for Hptm Ernst Wallner, three for Lt Ludwig Wurtz, also another name Lt Achim Woeste looks familiar. all claims between 14th October 1943(Schweinfurt raid) and 4th October 1944. Strange numberings sometimes 3./Luftbeo, sometimes LBST 2 or LBST 7 once Luftbeo.Kaatsch.

With JGr.ZBK, again not a clue, but the claimant was Gerhard Michalski:-

3./JGr.ZBK 29th April 1944 B-17 East of Braunschweig 1103 hrs 7000 metres.

If third staffel, then I guess there must have been at least two others, so quite a size.

Thirdly Michael, your very welcome, would like to see somebody take on publishing something on these shadowy units
"Macht ist missen."

Kind Regards

Johannes

P.S

Industrial guess you know were factory sponsored small units. The four unconfirmed were for Hptm Ernst-Albrecht Leube of Industrial.Erla, got these from his Leistungsbuch, guess this suggests he was flying alone, at least two were O.Z, but three claimants with this unit.
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  #15  
Old 17th January 2023, 17:37
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Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader

Thank you, I'll see what I can found from the opposite side for these two claims.

Info for Flugzeugüberführungsgeschwader 1: http://www.ww2.dk/air/misc/flug1.htm

And it should be a misprint and 3./JGr.ZBK should have been Stab/JG zbV (Jagdgeschwader zur besonderen Verwendung), a Stab formed to control a number of Gruppen: https://www.ww2.dk/air/jagd/jgzbv.html
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  #16  
Old 17th January 2023, 17:43
alessandro bray alessandro bray is offline
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Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader

Thank you Johannes,

very interesting list, above all for the reconnaissance units.
Two question for my part:
are 1945 claims included? the note for JG 51,52,54 "very active in 1945" confuses me.
For NJG 1 have over 2300 night and day claims, old Aders book on Nachtjagd, a difference of 200 plus.

regards
Alessandro
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  #17  
Old 18th January 2023, 11:07
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johannes View Post
Hi Guys

Firstly my old friend Stig.

I didn't know the purpose of JG 25(by memory one of the claimants was Herbert Ihlefeld, but I do know the JG 50 flew special high altitude Bf109's to get at Mosquitos.

Others, just clumped together obscure units to save time.

Kind Regards

Johannes
Thanks for the explanation Johannes
I always thought both JG 25 and JG 50 were formed for the same purpose.
Mosquito hunting.
I have re-arranged some units a bit....

Cheers
Stig
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  #18  
Old 19th January 2023, 09:54
Johannes Johannes is offline
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Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader

Hi Alessandro

!945 claims included, however it's only what I know from flugbücher and Leistungsbücher. Only JG 26/JG 27 known completely. So many, many missing.

Kind Regards

Johannes
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  #19  
Old 19th January 2023, 10:20
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knusel knusel is offline
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Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader

Good morning Johannes and Co,

multiplying unit scores with equipment percentages and including the other Axis powers I found that the Bf109 claimed more and the Fw190 less than I thought...

I assume the 354 LG2 kills were mainly scored by I./LG2 ?

Cheers,
Michael

Last edited by knusel; 19th January 2023 at 18:47.
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  #20  
Old 20th January 2023, 00:30
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Marcel Hogenhuis Marcel Hogenhuis is offline
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Re: Total number of claims for each Jagdgeschwader

Hello Johannes,

Most interesting data, thank you very much for sharing this with us. Regarding the Luftbeob.Staffeln your data sounds convincing and in line with data I have assembled for Luftbeob.St.1 and 3, both established in Venlo late 1943.

Lt. Ludwig Wirtz (not Wurtz ) flew from 'my' airfield Venlo late 1943 and early 1944 before his fatal accident 8th January 1944.

Keep up the good work! Best regards, Marcel
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