Kozhedub and P-51s

[Kutscha]

Late in the war, Kozhedub is said to have shot down 2 P-51s that had attacked him. What unit were the P-51s from and who were the pilots?

This is suppose to be gun camera footage, http://model.otaku.ru/1/kozhedub_guncamera.jpg

thanks.

[Franek Grabowski]

It is not confirmed the film was shot by Kozhedub and not eg. captured in Germany. That is one thing. The other is that no fitting US losses were found and finally it is clear from the film those Mustangs definetelly were not attacking but attacked.

[Ruy Horta]

Originally Posted by Franek Grabowski

it is clear from the film those Mustangs definetelly were not attacking but attacked.

If you are looking at the same frames as we are I think you are either a psycic medium or very imaginative. I only see the final seconds of a kill, nothing of what happened before or after.

The only hint that the Mustangs did not attack first is the fact that they are still carrying their drop tanks.

However, since we all know how Tommy McGuire came to his end, that is not certain proof that these Mustangs did not attack prior to being attacked as in illustrated by these final seconds of air combat.

Either you are basing your assumption on other material (or more footage), or you are letting your judgement be clouded by your sentiment - you've lost objectivity.

[Franek Grabowski]

Originally Posted by Ruy Horta

The only hint that the Mustangs did not attack first is the fact that they are still carrying their drop tanks.
However, since we all know how Tommy McGuire came to his end, that is not certain proof that these Mustangs did not attack prior to being attacked as in illustrated by these final seconds of air combat.

A Mustang entering dog-fight with a Focke Wulf with drop tanks carried? We have two different aircraft both in a dog fight and both with drop tanks. Highly unlikely, especially having in mind Mc Guire went against the rules and with catastrophic results.

Either you are basing your assumption on other material (or more footage), or you are letting your judgement be clouded by your sentiment - you've lost objectivity.

Well, I have an American description of a combat involving 'La-5' just in the right place of Germany. It does not look anything like Kozhedub's description but is the best match I have found. And it says Soviets bounced first.

[MB]

Undoubtedly that's a tape from e real German fighter's guncamera, not from La-7 ... I saw a lot of latter in 176 GIAP photo-album, they are different, and the tape is US-made, not Zeiss...

Hehe, I think that Kozhedub's 'kills' are only the rumor because all such events were fixed in Soviet documents. I saw few detailed documents describing 866 IAP Yaks combat with P-38 on 7.11.44 with 'victories' and own losses, but there isn't a single word about those misterious Mustangs...

[Franek Grabowski]

Da, Mihail, dumaju shto Ty videl mnozhe chem ja but if Mr Stankov is correct and Kozhedub fired at a B-17, this may be well the incident I have description of. At least it was done by Lavkas.

[MB]

I saw one document described one of those 'B-17' incidents. That was a combat report from the soviet fighter patrol leader. In brief : Soviet patrol (4 Yaks as I remember) encountered a crippled B17 bomber and started to cover it, but suddenly a pair of 190s (damn 'hunters') picked from the clouds, shot down the bomber and then quickly went out by deep picking... But survived crew members of B17 reported that Yaks shot down them...

/Sorry, that's not my theme so I didn't copy that document and saying this now by my memory only/

[Christer Bergström]

He who has patience will see in a future Black Cross/Red Star volume. There are some quite interesting U.S. reports. Kozhedub? That remains to be clarified.

Volume 3 of Black Cross/Red Star will be out soon. Check the link below.

[Franek Grabowski]

Mihail
One B-24 was downed by Soviet aircraft near Łódź and definetelly there were no German aircraft involved. Here is the link http://www.samoloty.ow.pl/str140.htm, where the story is mentioned (in Polish).
The combat I have written about previously, involved two La, Mustang escorts and a B-17, it occured in March 1945.
After some correspondence with a son of a Soviet pilot I am not so sure anymore they were unintentional.

[Ruy Horta]

Christer,

If you mention Vol.3 once more you owe me a copy!!

All that free advertising, its ridiculous

Actually preordered mine with Eagle Ltd, so just kidding...well sort of, anyway.