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Pre-WW2 Military and Naval Aviation Please use this forum to discuss Military and Naval Aviation before the Second World War.

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  #31  
Old 21st June 2018, 09:07
Col Bruggy Col Bruggy is offline
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Re: Bf109A,B,C,D in Legion Condor

Hello,

Victory No.9.
Date: 23 September 1938
Aircraft: "Rata"
Location: Ginestar.
Rejected by RLM, Berlin.

Second claim (No.8), on this date, verified.

Source:
Werner "Vati" Molders.
Michulec,Robert
Tarnobrzeg (Pol.):Mushroom Model Publications,2000
(Blue Series No.1)
p.11

NB. On pp.81-2 of the above reference, there is a coloured 4-view of Molder's Bf 109 D 6-79, with the 15 kill markings. Caption: Bf 109 D. "Vatti's" [sic] personal aircraft after his last kill in Spain. Upper surfaces RLM 63, lower RLM 65.

Please excuse the lack of umlauts in Molders surname.

Col.
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  #32  
Old 21st June 2018, 09:33
Nick Hector Nick Hector is offline
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Re: Bf109A,B,C,D in Legion Condor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Col Bruggy View Post
Hello,

Victory No.9.
Date: 23 September 1938
Aircraft: "Rata"
Location: Ginestar.
Rejected by RLM, Berlin.

Second claim (No.8), on this date, verified.

Source:
Werner "Vati" Molders.
Michulec,Robert
Tarnobrzeg (Pol.):Mushroom Model Publications,2000
(Blue Series No.1)
p.11

NB. On pp.81-2 of the above reference, there is a coloured 4-view of Molder's Bf 109 D 6-79, with the 15 kill markings. Caption: Bf 109 D. "Vatti's" [sic] personal aircraft after his last kill in Spain. Upper surfaces RLM 63, lower RLM 65.

Please excuse the lack of umlauts in Molders surname.

Col.
Ah... Thanks, Col.
I actually have that one packed away somewhere. I will dig it out and update my database accordingly.

Many thanks!
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  #33  
Old 21st June 2018, 09:41
knusel's Avatar
knusel knusel is offline
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Re: Bf109A,B,C,D in Legion Condor

Good morning Peter,

I checked the journal at home. Nothing conclusive. No 6-79 photo. The article (no author mentioned) proposes that after he flew the He51 for two months, Mölders' unit transitioned to Bf109B's in mid-1938. I wonder if this is valid.

Cheers,

Michael
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  #34  
Old 26th June 2018, 11:32
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knusel knusel is offline
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Re: Bf109A,B,C,D in Legion Condor

Good morning Peter,

I checked the Obermaier/Held book in the library.
It shows only the rudder with the 15 kill bars. No fuselage.

Cheers,

Michael
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  #35  
Old 26th June 2018, 14:39
PMoz99 PMoz99 is offline
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Re: Bf109A,B,C,D in Legion Condor

OK, thanks .....
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  #36  
Old 27th June 2018, 17:44
Leo Etgen Leo Etgen is offline
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Werner Mölders - 13 September 1938

Hi Nick

Evgeny Velichko posted some information (later edited by Francisco) that Oberleutnant Werner Mölders engaged several I-16 fighters and was responsible for the loss of various of these on 13 September 1938. Apparently, Teniente Jaime San Colom of the 7ª Escuadrilla was shot down and killed in CM-125, two other Moscas were shot down as well (CM-154 and CM-178) although their pilots bailed out, another pilot of the 3ª Escuadrilla in CM-138 was wounded and Andrés Fierro Menú of the 3ª Escuadrilla landed by error in CM-192 on a Nationalist airfield. You can find the original information at: http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...aime+San+Colom I hope this helps and any comments or corrections will be appreciated.

Horrido!

Leo
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  #37  
Old 28th June 2018, 09:43
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knusel knusel is offline
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Re: Bf109A,B,C,D in Legion Condor

Good morning,

maybe it's possible to prove that Mölders' last Spain kill was before the Bf109E entered service.
The E-1 entered service in February 1939:
https://community.infinite-flight.co...variants/65317
But the same website says also 10 E-0's entered service. Were they sent to Spain ?

Kind regards,

Michael
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  #38  
Old 28th June 2018, 15:32
PMoz99 PMoz99 is offline
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Re: Bf109A,B,C,D in Legion Condor

Regarding the E, I asked basically the same question back in post #20 with no response. According to the book Bf109A-D by Ariel Barbio -

...the principal variant used ..... was the Bf109B-2. .... At he end of 1938 37 Bf109s were in service ..... At the end of March 1939, 40 Bf109Es were acquired .....

Unfortunately the numbers at end of 1938 don't balance with Laureau - he bsays there were 86 B-D's, with 35 losses = 51. Is Barbio suggesting 14 were somehow out of service/unserviceable? I would have thought "in service" in that context would mean all available.

Barbio also states Molders arrived in May 1938 when III./J88 was equipped with the B-2. Unfortunately it does not say when they were replaced by D's. Molders first kill was July 1938.

What about the 2 extra kills mentioned by Evgeny? Does anyone have anything to corroborate this?

Cheers
Peter
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  #39  
Old 28th June 2018, 22:16
sidney sidney is offline
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Re: Bf109A,B,C,D in Legion Condor

Quote:
Originally Posted by PMoz99 View Post
... Barbio also states Molders arrived in May 1938 when III./J88 was equipped with the B-2. Unfortunately it does not say when they were replaced by D's. Molders first kill was July 1938....

Cheers
Peter
According to the information that I have Hptm. Douglas Pitcairn of the 3. Staffel (i.e., 3. J/88) was replaced by Hptm. Adolf Galland on 27 July 1937, who in turn was replaced by Hptm. Werner Mölders on 24 May 1938. The Staffel was was still flying the obsolescent He 51 and was relegated to the ground attack duties, but converted to the Bf 109 D-1 aircraft in July/August 1938.
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  #40  
Old 29th June 2018, 02:12
PMoz99 PMoz99 is offline
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Re: Bf109A,B,C,D in Legion Condor

Thanks Sidney. That might also explain his kills starting mid July.
Peter
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