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  #21  
Old 9th August 2019, 11:59
bearoutwest bearoutwest is offline
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Re: Aircraft that did not quite produce a full top ace

Not generally torpedo bombers, from memory they were RAF or SAAF Beaufighters on coastal patrol, fighter sweep or bomb/rocket strike.


...geoff
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  #22  
Old 9th August 2019, 19:11
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knusel knusel is offline
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Re: Aircraft that did not quite produce a full top ace

This seems to be a bold deed, as the Beaufighter is much faster and more heavily armed than the Arado Ar 196.

Michael
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  #23  
Old 10th August 2019, 06:15
bearoutwest bearoutwest is offline
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Re: Aircraft that did not quite produce a full top ace

Beaufighter losses to Ar196 (Appendix I - Fighters over the Aegean):

17-Sep-43 252 Sqn V8335

29-Oct-43 47 Sqn JM225

6-Nov-43 47 Sqn LX998

27-Jan-44 603 Sqn LZ144

22-Feb-44 227 Sqn X8103

1-Jun-44 227 Sqn JM235

1-Jun-44 603 Sqn LZ517 (shared with flak)

1-Jun-44 16SAAF NE641

17-Jun-44 16SAAF NExxx (shared with flak)

Here's an oddity for you - a Beaufighter shot down from return fire of a Ju52:
30-Aug-44 603 Sqn NV213

If you compare straight performance statistics between Beaufighter and Ar196, the Beau wins hands down. However, remember that combat is not a comparison sheet. The Beau has good low-level speed, but in a shipping srtike wouldn't be going flat-out top speed on the way in to target. Down low, the Arado was very nimble. If the Arado takes the Beau by surprise or the Beau's crew is over-confident and underestimates the floatplane result is not so sure. As for the benefits of the Beau's heavy armament....well RAF crews were supposed to be lousy shots in general. Air-to-air marksmanship was not as heavily drilled in the Commonwealth as for the USN/USMC or USAAF training.


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  #24  
Old 10th August 2019, 19:35
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knusel knusel is offline
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Re: Aircraft that did not quite produce a full top ace

Good evening Geoff,

that's a cool list.
Do you know any of the claimants ?

I wish you a good Saturday,

Michael
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  #25  
Old 11th August 2019, 03:19
Andrew Arthy Andrew Arthy is offline
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Re: Aircraft that did not quite produce a full top ace

Quote:
Originally Posted by knusel View Post
Good evening Geoff,

that's a cool list.
Do you know any of the claimants ?

I wish you a good Saturday,

Michael

Michael,

Given that men died in some of those aircraft, I'm not sure "cool list" is an appropriate way to describe it.

Cheers,
Andrew A.
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  #26  
Old 11th August 2019, 03:41
Nick Hector Nick Hector is offline
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Re: Aircraft that did not quite produce a full top ace

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Originally Posted by Andrew Arthy View Post
Michael,

Given that men died in some of those aircraft, I'm not sure "cool list" is an appropriate way to describe it.

Cheers,
Andrew A.

Yes,


It's slightly sickening to view it all that way.
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  #27  
Old 11th August 2019, 04:46
bearoutwest bearoutwest is offline
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Re: Aircraft that did not quite produce a full top ace

Gentlemen,
We are all discussing items on a Historic Combat Aircraft website. In all probability, men have been lost in action in almost all of the posts we share information on. It is appropriate that we acknowledge this in passing - to ourselves, if to no one else.

However, it is perhaps less appropriate to jump down someone's throat for the use of a phrase - the word "cool" specifically - without considering the intent of the usage or the level of English-writing experience. I - as the intended recipient of that phrase - am happy to read it's use as a statement of gratitude for my efforts in bothering to compile the list.

Yes, in reading and compiling that list, I am well aware and here-acknowledge the loss in action of roughly 50% of the Allied aircrews on the list - and also of a much higher percentage of loss of the Arado crews, including a number of likely claimants.

Isn't that the reason we discuss these threads? To compile lists and facts for our enjoyment and to remember those that were lost..... "lest we forget".


With humility,

...geoff
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  #28  
Old 11th August 2019, 11:43
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knusel knusel is offline
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Re: Aircraft that did not quite produce a full top ace

Good morning Geoff,

you right. Thanks again for sharing.
It's the longest list of it's kind, isn't it ?

Have a good Sunday,

Michael
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  #29  
Old 19th August 2019, 19:54
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knusel knusel is offline
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Re: Aircraft that did not quite produce a full top ace

...by courtesy of stukapilot I found this website:
https://hubpages.com/education/Ar-196
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