D-Day JG 2 and NAGr 13 losses

[Doug Stankey]

As the NAGr. 13 aspect of this looks neglected, I am obliged to chime in with information gleaned mainly from pages 315 to 320 of the book:

Frappé, Jean-Bernard. La Luftwaffe face au débarquement allié (Bayeux: Editions Heimdal , 1999. ISBN: 2-84048-126-X

The following reflects losses in June 1944:

Stab/NAGr. 13
None known.

1./NAGr. 13
17.06.44 lost two Bf 109 G E of Chartres and over the estuary Orne-Vire
18.06.44 lost a Bf 109 G-6 vic Caen- north of Sées
28.06.44 lost Bf 109 G-6 (RW+DP) north of Caen

2./NAGr. 13
14.06.44 lost Fw 190 A-3 , Oblt. Walter Erhard KIA vic Ajaccio
29.06.44 lost Fw 190 A-4 south of Nice

3./NAGr. 13
12.06.44 lost Bf 109 G-8 vic Dom-front-Dompierre
16.06.44 lost Bf 109 G, S of Bayeux
24.06.44 lost Bf 109 G-8 vic Vire


I hope that this helps.

DGS

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Doug Stankey

As the NAGr. 13 aspect of this looks neglected …
DGS

Not completely perhaps: http://www.ghostbombers.com/recon/nag13.html

[RT]

With Minner I always wonder about "correctness " of his name Alf-eduard, maybe some german natives could give any hints ??

Remi

[thenelm]

From published sources, other than Weal - I don't remember when the Weal's JG 2 book from Osprey was originally published, before or after Frappé? Possibly before -

Fw 190A-8, 170335, Schulwitz, Fhr. Gerhard, , 6., JG 26, gelbe, 10 + -, GU+RD, , 06-Jun-44, Reported lost due to ship's Flak. Returned., , FR, Caldwell, JG 26 War Diary, II, p.270, Merrick, LW Camo & Markings 33-45, II, p.370, Ornemündung, 100%, F, , , Bremen factory
Fw 190A-8, 170347, Bergmann, Uffz. Kurt, , 11., JG 2, , , GU+RP, , 06-Jun-44, KIA due to own Flak., Frappé says WNr. 170343 - a dup., FR, Ring, JG 2 loss list, p.25; Frappé, La LW face au débarquement allié, p.34, 313, Merrick, LW Camo & Markings 33-45, II, p.370, südlich Rouen, 100%, F, , ,
Fw 190A-8, , Krieger, Uffz. Erich, , 11., JG 2, , , , , 06-Jun-44, FSA due to Luftkampf., , FR, Frappé, La LW face au débarquement allié, p.33, 313, , Buc, 100%, F, , ,
Fw 190A-8, 170725, Lüdtke, Uffz. Günter, , , Erprob.Kdo. 25, , , , , 06-Jun-44, Injured in crash., , Lfl. Reich, BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/779, p.92, , Fl.Pl. Parchim, 100%, H, , ,
Fw 190A-8, , Schneider, FhjUffz. Friedrich, , 2., JG 26, , , , , 06-Jun-44, Bauchlandung due to ship's Flak. Killed next day in traffic accident., , FR, Caldwell, JG 26 War Diary, II, p.270, , Fl.Pl. Beaumont le Roger, b, F, , ,
Fw 190A-8, 170383, Lindner, Uffz. Erich, , 7., JG 26, braune, 10 + -, GU+SZ, , 06-Jun-44, WIA due to Luftkampf with P-51s. FSA., , FR, Caldwell, JG 26 War Diary, II, p.270, Merrick, LW Camo & Markings 33-45, II, p.370, St. Opportune, 100%, F, , , Bremen factory
Fw 190A-6, 650503, Kolberg, Ofw. Martin, , 7., SG 4, weiße, A +, , , 06-Jun-44, KIA due to Luftkampf with P-51s. Passenger KIA., , FR, Frappé, La LW face au débarquement allié, p.263, 313, , SE of Laval, 100%, F, , ,
Fw 190A-6, 470585, Speer, Uffz. Otto, , 7., SG 4, weiße, L +, , , 06-Jun-44, KIA due to Luftkampf with P-51s., , FR, Frappé, La LW face au débarquement allié, p.263, 313, , Laval, 100%, F, , ,
Fw 190A-6, 650502, Rahofer, Uffz., , Stab III., SG 4, schwarze, || +, , , 06-Jun-44, Luftkampf with P-51s. Passenger WIA., , FR, Frappé, La LW face au débarquement allié, p.262, 313, , östlich Bretigny, b, F, , ,
Fw 190A-7, 430472, Pühringer, Oblt. Johann, , Stab III., SG 4, , , , , 06-Jun-44, Adj. KIA due to Luftkampf with P-51s. Passenger escaped., , FR, Frappé, La LW face au débarquement allié, p.262, 313, , Bretigny, 100%, F, , ,
Fw 190A-6, 470601, Mihlan, Hptm. Heinz, , 8., SG 4, schwarze, M + |, , , 06-Jun-44, Staffelkapitan. FSA after Luftkampf with P-51s. Passenger KIA., , FR, Frappé, La LW face au débarquement allié, p.262, 313, , Saint-Jean-d'Assé, 100%, F, , ,
Fw 190A-8, 170119, Bleich, Ltn. Hans, , 6., JG 26, schwarze, 5 + -, , , 06-Jun-44, Injured, crashed on take-off, caught if Glunz's propwash., , FR, Caldwell, JG 26 War Diary, II, p.270, , Fl.Pl. Biarritz, b, F, , ,
Fw 190A-8, , Schneider, Uffz. Friedrich, , 2., JG 26, , , , , 06-Jun-44, Notlandung., , FR, Frappé, La LW face au débarquement allié, p.40, 313, , Fl.Pl. Beaumont-le-Roger, b, F, , ,
Fw 190A-8, 730466, Winter, Uffz. Hans-Werner, , 3., JG 26, gelbe, 3 +, , , 06-Jun-44, KIA due to own Flak., , FR, Caldwell, JG 26 War Diary, II, p.270, , Abbeville, 100%, F, , ,
Fw 190A-, , n.n., , II., JG 1, , , , , 06-Jun-44, Technical failure., , FR, Prien & Rodeike, JG 1 & 11, II, p.1186, , Ort unbekannt, b, F, , ,
Fw 190A-6, 470582, Brauneis, Fw. Franz, , 8., SG 4, schwarze, B +, , , 06-Jun-44, KIA due to Luftkampf with P-51s. Passenger escaped., , FR, Frappé, La LW face au débarquement allié, p.262, 313, , La Bazoge nördlich Le Mans, 100%, F, , ,
Fw 190A-8, , Müller, Fw., , 12., JG 2, , , , , 06-Jun-44, MIA, cause unknown., , FR, Frappé, La LW face au débarquement allié, p.35, 313, , , 100%, F, , ,
Fw 190A-8, 170012, Thiel, Uffz. Franz, , 3., JG 2, , , , , 06-Jun-44, Killed in crash during transit flight., , FR, Ring, JG 2 loss list, p.25; Frappé, La LW face au débarquement allié, p.16, 313, , Nancy-Creil, 100%, H, , ,

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi!

The Summarische Verlustemeldungen is an assistance with regards to getting the numbers right.

According to these, the JG 2 reported losing the folllowing aircraft in the listed loss categories on D-Day :

I./J.G.2:
1 aircraft, destroyed on the ground by enemy bomb (No personnel injury)
3 aircraft, damaged without enemy action on operational flight (No personnel injury)
1 aircraft, destroyed by gunfire from enemy aircraft on operational flight, observed by enemy (Pilot KIA)

III./J.G.2:
2 aircraft, missing due to enemy action (1 pilot MIA, 1 pilot KIA)
2 aircraft, destroyed by gunfire from enemy aircraft on operational flight, observed by enemy (No personnel injury)

So Donald Caldwell got the numbers correct, John Weal did not. Also, Gizmo, you state that the "Flugzeugunfälle und Verluste bei den (fliegende) Verbänden" only list 5 aircraft from JG 2, that is incorrect. The number is as given by the Summarische Verlustemeldungen 9 aircraft in total, reported in the reports of 12.06.1944 (4 aircraft), 17.06.1944 (3 aircraft), 20.06.1944 (1 aircraft) and 26.06.1944 (1 aircraft).

These were the initial recordings made by the unit.

Turning to N.A.Gr.13, according to the summary loss records they did not report any losses on D-Day.

Regards,
Andreas B

[Gizmo]

Thanks for helpful comments.
Now I see that there were two different clashes between USAAF and III/SG 4, also with 78th FG (or 15th TRS) against 8./SG 4.

[Tom Semenza]

Question for "Thenelm" regarding:

Fw 190A-6, 470601, Mihlan, Hptm. Heinz, , 8., SG 4, schwarze, M + |, , , 06-Jun-44, Staffelkapitan. FSA after Luftkampf with P-51s. Passenger KIA., , FR, Frappé, La LW face au débarquement allié, p.262, 313, , Saint-Jean-d'Assé, 100%, F, , ,

"Passenger KIA?" Why would there be a passenger in a single seater? Or does this refer to Mihlan? If not, did Mihlan survive uninjured? I noticed another SG 4 entry mentioned a passenger. I am aware that during evacuations single seater air units would stuff a mechanic into the baggage compartment.

Thanks,
Tom

[RT]

Andreas,

Turning to N.A.Gr.13, according to the summary loss records they did not report any losses on D-Day.


Could you pls give the full losses for the month of june exposed by the Sum's ??

NAGr.13 could be read as 4 or 5.F123...


Remi

[RT]

I mean the losses for the NAGr.13 nd F123

Remi

[Gizmo]

Tom,
"FSA" note for Hptm. Mihlan = "ballied out". He claimed one (not conformed by USAAF sources) P-51 before his plane was shot down. On D-Day each staffel of III/SG 4 making independent transfer flight from South France airfields to Normandy area, so you right, additional passengers are mechanics.