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Old 11th August 2010, 23:33
smitcons smitcons is offline
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Which ME-109 straved a B17G at Wijk bij Duurstede?

On february 22, 1944 the A/C #42-31399, a brand new B-17G, piloted by 1Lt C.D. Crook of 360 sq (303rd BG), was tail-end charlie in a formation on the way to the Junker factory in Aschersleben. In the neighbourhood of Münster the group was attacked by a swerm of ME-109. The 42-31399 was hit in a engine and lost fuel by a hole in a wing. They lost speed.

A report of the tailgunner: "We were alone now and the fighters pounced on us like a bunch of hungry wolves determined on the kill. It was too much to fight off wave after wave of fighters, so we put down our landing wheels, a sign of surrender and dropped down to land on German soil. It is usual for a German fighter to follow you down and make sure that you land, but we were alone in the air and we were then determined to make a run for England. We had come down "to the deck" which was about 1300 feet and we flew just above the clouds, ready to go into them if a fighter should show up. For some time we flew along, keeping "Cloud cover" and then it happened. We were twenty minutes from the coast and the clouds ceased to exist. We were in the open and a ME-190 had spotted us. He came from below and at the rear. Our pilot was doing some beautiful flying, but we were defenseless and the German came in from the left and to the rear again. His bullets came crashing into the plane, knocking out two more engines. The order came, "stop firing". We were going to crash land. We were going down and we were too low for all of us to jump in safety. Two of the crew had jumped before anyone knew it and because of their action we were I able to flee in safety later on. Everyone was climbing into their positions for the crash landing, the pilot, co-pilot, bombardier, navigator and the engineer in the front cabin and the tail-gunner, radio operator and one waist-gunner in the radio compartment.

Things happen so fast, it is hard to say what really happened. We were all crouched down and waiting for the first bounce. It came and plenty hard. In the meantime, the German plane was circling the wreckage and suddenly dove down and strafed the ship. There were still five of us in the plane and shells were hitting everywhere".

I couldn't find any claim of a German pilot that day (februari 22, 1944 about 13:00 hrs) of shooting down a B17 in Holland in the line Münster - Utrecht. I suppose that the German pilot did claim this victory. My questions: who was (or could be) the pilot of this ME109 and from which base?
I couldn't discover no one on the O.K.L. Fighter Claims who claims a B17 in on the line Arnhem-Utrecht Who can help?
Leendert Smit
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Old 12th August 2010, 10:47
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Which ME-109 straved a B17G at Wijk bij Duurstede?

Here is the list of German claims this day against 8th Air Force as compiled by Tony Wood:

22.02.44 Oblt. Hans Schleef: 97 3./JG 3 P-47 £ LL-1: 6.100 m. [S. Tilburg] 12.17 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.62
22.02.44 Fw. Hans Schäfer: 9 10./JG 3 P-51 £ - 12.20 Reference: JG 3 List f. 354
22.02.44 Hptm. Hermann Segatz: 35 Stab II./JG 1 B-17 £ JN-7: 6.000 m. [Raum Kleve] 12.25 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.57
22.02.44 Hptm. Hermann Segatz: 36 Stab II./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/KO ostw. Wesel: 6.000 m. 12.45 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.58
22.02.44 Fw. Baunicke 5./ZG 26 B-17 £ westl. Freising: 6.000 m. 12.45- 13.00 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.56
22.02.44 Oblt. Kurt Senoner 1./JG 5 B-17 £ bei Mühldorf: 7.000 m. [Bayern] 12.50 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.1
22.02.44 Ltn. Hans Ehlers: 37 3./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/JP : 6.500 m. [Coesfeld-Dülmen] 12.50 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.13
22.02.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 185 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/KO, nordestlich Bottrop 12.51 Reference: JG 1 List f. 1202
22.02.44 Fhj-Ofw. Alfred Müller: 5 4./JG 27 P-47 £ Raum Hagen-Wuppertal: 6.000 m. 12.55 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.207
22.02.44 Major Erich Gerlitz: 19 Stab I./JG 5 B-17 £ bei Mühldorf: 6.100 m. [Bayern] 12.58 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.1 KIA 16/03/44
22.02.44 Fw. Heinz Fuchs: 11 4./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/JP, südostlich Coesfeld 13.00 Reference: JG 1 List f. 1202
22.02.44 Oblt. Fritz Stehle 5./ZG 26 B-17 £ südl. Dachau: 6.000 m. [Bayern] 13.00-10 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.57
22.02.44 Fhj.Fw. Zauter: 1 6./JG 1 B-17 e.V. £ 05 Ost S/KO-5/6, raum Wesel 13.05 Reference: JG 1 List f. 1202
22.02.44 Uffz. Hans-Joachim Tüngler: 2 ► 5./JG 1 B-17 HSS £ 05 Ost S/KN, Xanten 6.000 m. 13.05 Reference: JG 1 List f. 1202
22.02.44 Uffz. Zinkl: - 4./JG 1 B-17 e.V. £ 05 Ost S/JQ-4, raum Münster 13.06 Reference: JG 1 List f. 1202
22.02.44 Oblt. Bock 2./JG 104 B-24 £ Obertraubling: 6.000 m. [Bayern] 13.07 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.4
22.02.44 Ltn. Johannes Jung 6./JG 27 B-17 £ KP-39: 3.500 m. [Recklinhausen] 13.12 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.73
22.02.44 Lt. Johannes Jung: e.V. 6./JG 27 B-17 e.V. £ 05 Ost S/KP-3/9 13.17 Reference: JG 27 List f. 564
22.02.44 Maj. Günther Specht: 29 Stab II./JG 11 P-51 £ Blomberg-Akland: 2.000 m. [E. Detmold] 13.35-45 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.15
22.02.44 Ltn. Rudi Dassow 4./ZG 26 B-17 £ Bielefeld: 6.000 m. 13.35-50 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.96
22.02.44 Oberst Walter Oesau: 111 Stab/JG 1 B-17 £ 10 km. N. Thier: 1.000 m. [Gütersloh] 13.36 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.5
22.02.44 Oblt. Paul Bley 9./ZG 26 B-17 £ - 13.40 Film C. 2031/I Abgelehnt
22.02.44 Ltn. Werner Gerth Sturmstaffel 1 B-17 £ Bielefeld: 6.500 m. 13.40 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.6
22.02.44 Gefr. Rudolf Pintsch: 2 11./JG 3 B-17 HSS £ KN-96: 8.000 m. [E. Geldern] 13.40 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.1
22.02.44 Ofw. Robert Roller: 13 6./JG 3 B-17 £ JT-2 or FT-2: 7.000 m. [E. Detmold] 13.45 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.70
22.02.44 Oblt. Rudolf Klemm 7./JG 54 B-17 £ JT-42: 7.500 m. [E. Detmold] 13.45 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr. 234
22.02.44 Maj. Günther Specht: 30 Stab II./JG 11 B-17 £ Blomberg-Detmold: 7.100 m. 13.42-55 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.21
22.02.44 Uffz. see 3/2 2./ZG 26 B-17 £ HT-52: 7.000 m. [Hameln] 13.45 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr. –
22.02.44 Uffz. Siegfried Teske 8./ZG 26 B-17 £ - 13.50 Film C. 2031/I Noch aussteht
22.02.44 Fw. Emil Hecker 9./JG 54 B-17 £ JU-65: 6.500 m. [Holzminden-Einbeck] 13.50 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr. –
22.02.44 Oblt. Heinz Knoke: 21 5./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 ost S/HT: 7.000 m. [Raum Hameln] 13.50 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.192
22.02.44 Uffz. Walter Uecker 9./JG 54 B-17 £ JU: 6.000 m. [Holzminden-Einbeck] 13.55 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.200
22.02.44 Hptm. Heinrich Sannemann: 21 6./JG 3 B-17 £ - 13.55 Reference: JG 3 List f. 452
22.02.44 Uffz. Kabitz [sic] 7./JG 54 B-17G £ JB: 6.500 m. [Bad Harzburg-Halberstadt] 14.03 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.244
22.02.44 Maj. Heinz Bär: 186 6./JG 1 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/HO-1/4, nördl. Grevenbroich 14.18 Reference: JG 1 List f. 1202
22.02.44 Ltn. Gerhard Bärsdorf II./JG 300 B-17 £ 2 km. S. Gifhorn: 7.000 m. 14.25 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.24
22.02.44 Hptm. Ritter Stab/JG 110 P-51 £ Eatten: 7.200 m. [?] 14.25 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.2
22.02.44 Oblt. Herbert Christmann: 5 11./JG 11 B-17 £ GQ: no height [Hopsten-Bramsche] 14.50 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.7
22.02.44 Fw. Franz Ritschel: 5 11./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GA-7: 6.000 m. [Peine] 14.56 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.1
22.02.44 Uffz. Karl Merbeth: 1 11./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/GS: no height [Lübbecke] 15.00 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.8
22.02.44 Uffz. Kirchner: 2 11./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/JR-1: 6.000 m. [W. Gütersloh] 15.05 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.5
22.02.44 Oblt. Hans-Hermann Müller: 7 10./NJG 3 B-17 £ IR-66: 5.500 m. [W. Gütersloh] 15.07 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.1
22.02.44 Oblt. Hans-Hermann Müller: 8 10./NJG 3 B-17 £ JR-66: no height [W. Gütersloh] 15.09 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.14
22.02.44 Uffz. Hans Fritz: 2 3./JG 3 P-47 £ NL-23: 6.000 m. [Hasselt] 15.23 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.7
22.02.44 Oblt. Hans-Heinrich Koenig: 10 3./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/NR S.E. Siegen: 7.000 m. 15.25 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.61
22.02.44 Fhj.Fw. Gerhard Dreizeher: 3 1./JG 11 B-17 £ östl. Siegen: 7.000 m. 15.25 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.5
22.02.44 Fw. Heinz Neuendorf: 4 2./JG 11 B-17 £ NR-1 to NQ-3: 7.000 m. [Siegen area] 15.25 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.1
22.02.44 Oberst Walter Oesau: 112 Stab/JG 1 B-17 £ - 15.25 Reference: JG 1 List f. 1202
22.02.44 Fw. Franz Steiner: 9 2./JG 11 B-17 £ NR-8: 7.000 m. [S.W. Siegen] 15.32 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.100
22.02.44 Fw. Heinz Stöwer: 7 3./JG 11 B-17 £ NR-8: 7.000 m. [S.W. Siegen] 15.33 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.3
22.02.44 Uffz. Hans-Joachim Tüngler: 3 ► 5./JG 1 P-47 £ 05 Ost S/MM, südwestlich Roermond 15.37 Reference: JG 1 List f. 1202
22.02.44 Ltn. Erich Dobrick: 6 Stab I./JG 11 B-17 £ 05 Ost S/NO N.W. Eitorf: 7.000 m. 15.40 Film C. 2025/I Anerk: Nr.151

Supplemental Claims from Sources:
22.02.44 Uffz. Rudolf Hübl: 11 1./JG 1 B-17 £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1202
22.02.44 Uffz. Irmer: n.b. Stab II./JG 1 B-17 £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1202
22.02.44 Fhj.Fw. Hans-Georg Güthenke: n.b 3./JG 11 B-17 £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1202
22.02.44 Fw. Wennekers: 13 5./JG 11 B-17 £ - - Reference: JG 1 List f. 1202
22.02.44 Gefr. Rudolf Pintsch: 3 11./JG 3 B-17 £ - - Reference: JG 3 List f. 354
22.02.44 Hptm. Heinrich Wurzer: 6 1./JG 302 B-17 £ - - Reference: WR JG 301-02
22.02.44 Oblt. Müller: 15 IV./NJG 3 B-17 £ bei Aalborg - Reference: DLC: B: KA: M
22.02.44 Oblt. Müller: 16 IV./NJG 3 B-17 £ bei Aalborg - Reference: DLC: B: KA: M

There are a lot of claims without location and/or time.

According to this site (http://www.nimh.nl/nl/images/1944%20sec_tcm5-7285.pdf) the B-17 42-31399 crashed at 1300 hrs.

You can investigate the claims of Zauter and Zinkl of JG 1, both around this time and claimed as e.V (achieving bombers forced out of formation). Claims are made in Wesel and Münster area, but might be where they started the attack, not where the bomber crashed ?
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