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  #1  
Old 10th March 2008, 15:42
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What unit escorted the Ju 88 R "defection"?

The RAF Museum owns a Ju 88 R that "defected" - actually flown by a British agent to Scotland from its unit in Norway. On the way in it is said to have been escorted by RAF Spitfires.

Does anyone know what unit these Spitfires belonged to?
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Old 10th March 2008, 16:54
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Re: What unit escorted the Ju 88 R "defection"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyraider3D View Post
The RAF Museum owns a Ju 88 R that "defected" - actually flown by a British agent to Scotland from its unit in Norway. On the way in it is said to have been escorted by RAF Spitfires.

Does anyone know what unit these Spitfires belonged to?
The Ju 88 R was not flown by a british agent. It was a defecting NJG-crew, and the spit's were scrambled in order to shoot the intruder down! But the Ju lowered its undercarrige showing that it was surrendering, as the spit's came close! Sadly i do not have the unit!

Junker
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Old 10th March 2008, 17:06
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Re: What unit escorted the Ju 88 R "defection"?

Hello again, my friend...

Found the undernoted information at the undernoted address. Even I didn't know we had 165 (Ceylon) Squadron up here in Scotland... what little gems of information one acquires in life... ! (lol) Hope it's useful to you.

The Ju88 was eventually intercepted by aircraft from No.165 (Ceylon) Squadron, flying Spitfire VBs from Peterhead with a detachment at Dyce airfield near Aberdeen. Blue section - 22 year old American, the late Flt Lt (later Sqn Ldr) Arthur Ford `Art' Roscoe DFC in BM515 (blue 1, who passed away 12 March 2006) and Canadian Sgt B R S Scamen (Blue 2) in AB921 were scrambled form Dyce at 1750 with orders to intercept an unidentified aircraft.

www.rafmuseum.org.uk/london/collections/aircraft/aircraft_histories/78-AF-953%20Junkers%20Ju88%20R1.pdf

Regards...

ObdL3945
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Old 10th March 2008, 19:01
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Re: What unit escorted the Ju 88 R "defection"?

Ah, fantastic info, many thanks!
It also clears up the whole agent/defection confusion. I guess you could say it was a bit of both.

I may be wishing for the moon on a stick here, but does anyone have the fuselage code letters for the mentioned Spitfires - or even photos? I've seen BM515 before as it subsequently served with 322 (Dutch) Sqn. as VL-P, but it would be nice to know what codes it wore with the 165th. SK-something I gather...
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Old 10th March 2008, 19:22
Adriano Baumgartner Adriano Baumgartner is offline
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Re: What unit escorted the Ju 88 R "defection"?

Hello Skyraider!
From what I do know, the Captain was indeed a MI6/SIS spy and from what I do have read, it seems he landed a Dornier Do 217 early in 1942 to deliver some special bags full of documents. I tried to find out the truth about those secret landings, but NEVER came around an authentic account of it.
What I do know however is that the father of the Hauptmann in question had contacts with Allied agents. It seems that he even transmited a radio message ( Propaganda ) later, after have landed ( I do not have my personal material with me right now, so please forgive me being so vague, ok? I contacted several Historians about that fact and do have a large amount of information, but at home, some 250km away from where I am now flying...You will have to wait a couple of days for my full reply ).
However, perhaps other acknowledged Historians do have more to say about that flight and that of the misteryous Dornier Do 217 landing at UK!
Yours very friend and sincerely
Adriano Baumgartner
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Old 10th March 2008, 19:25
Adriano Baumgartner Adriano Baumgartner is offline
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Re: What unit escorted the Ju 88 R "defection"?

Just adding a bit more: YES, OBDL3945 put correctly, it was 165 Squadron who intercepted them...
Early in the 70´s someone wrote a book about this incident. I do have the book, whose tittle my memories did not remember by heart...something like "Most incredible flight" or "Most secret flight"...(Had to check at home, sorry! I do read around 48 books/year, so it is hard to remember all by heart...)
Well, we will keep in touch
Adriano
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Old 10th March 2008, 19:30
Adriano Baumgartner Adriano Baumgartner is offline
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Re: What unit escorted the Ju 88 R "defection"?

The above mentioned unit was 10./NJG 3
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Old 10th March 2008, 19:56
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Re: What unit escorted the Ju 88 R "defection"?

Thanks Adriano! It sure is an intruiging story.

The PDF file from the RAF Museum mentiones a book "Most Secret War" by Prof. Jones.
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Old 10th March 2008, 21:01
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Re: What unit escorted the Ju 88 R "defection"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adriano Baumgartner View Post
Hello Skyraider!
From what I do know, the Captain was indeed a MI6/SIS spy and from what I do have read, it seems he landed a Dornier Do 217 early in 1942 to deliver some special bags full of documents. I tried to find out the truth about those secret landings, but NEVER came around an authentic account of it.
What I do know however is that the father of the Hauptmann in question had contacts with Allied agents. It seems that he even transmited a radio message ( Propaganda ) later, after have landed ( I do not have my personal material with me right now, so please forgive me being so vague, ok? I contacted several Historians about that fact and do have a large amount of information, but at home, some 250km away from where I am now flying...You will have to wait a couple of days for my full reply ).
However, perhaps other acknowledged Historians do have more to say about that flight and that of the misteryous Dornier Do 217 landing at UK!
Yours very friend and sincerely
Adriano Baumgartner

Oblt. Herber Schmid was not an allied spy/agent and neither was his Bf Ofw. Paul Rosenberger with whom Schmid decided to defect. The last crewmember Ofw Erich Kantwill was not told about this. He simply had to follow along. And his father was'ent a spy either. He was a grosser in Nordhausen. Schmid participated in the spanish war in Legion Condor in 1937 with 168 bomberflights!
He had EK 1 and 2, Frontflugspange in Gold, Spanienkreuz in Gold, Cruz de Guerra, Erinnerungsmedaille Östereich and Sudetenland, Verwundeteabzeichen in Schwartz! Yes he did make a propagandaspech in the BBC!

Junker
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Old 11th March 2008, 13:09
Adriano Baumgartner Adriano Baumgartner is offline
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Re: What unit escorted the Ju 88 R "defection"?

Hi Junkers!
There are a lot of unknown information that were still not being published yet. For example, the rumours about those landings with Do 217.
I know this pilot as Oblt Heinrich Schmidt and yes, do read about him being a spy; although never obtained positive evidences of so. However, why HE simply vanished after the war? Nobody EVER managed to find him. You do have a small account of his mission on the booklet of the German Night Fighter Aces of WW2 from OSPREY. It is said that someone tried to find him around the 1970´s, but did not managed to find his whereabouts.
Maybe some of you do have access to the SIS/MI6 files in UK?!
Yours
Adriano
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