Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 13th November 2018, 23:52
Jukka Juutinen Jukka Juutinen is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 913
Jukka Juutinen is an unknown quantity at this point
Bf 109 vs. Spitfire production costs

Years ago George Hopp posted here (or some other LW forum) a German analysis comparing Bf 109 and Spitfire manufacturing the analysis finding the Spitfire cheaper to build. Anyone with Hopp's document or his full post?
__________________
"No man, no problem." Josef Stalin possibly said...:-)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 14th November 2018, 00:11
sidney sidney is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 824
sidney is on a distinguished road
Re: Bf 109 vs. Spitfire production costs

According to the book The Decisive Duel: Spitfire Vs 109, the Bf 109 required less man-hours (i.e., for the Bf 109 G produced by Messerschmitt, the figure was only 4,500 man-hours, excluding herewith the equipment (radios) and armament) to manufacture than Spitfire, so on the face of it, 109 would be cheaper to build.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 14th November 2018, 06:12
Jukka Juutinen Jukka Juutinen is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 913
Jukka Juutinen is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Bf 109 vs. Spitfire production costs

I don't trust that book. Plus I am looking for the document Hopp posted and his commentary.
__________________
"No man, no problem." Josef Stalin possibly said...:-)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 14th November 2018, 09:30
Nick Beale's Avatar
Nick Beale Nick Beale is online now
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Exeter, England
Posts: 4,324
Nick Beale will become famous soon enough
Re: Bf 109 vs. Spitfire production costs

It was undoubtedly cheaper (in money terms) to build a 109 since the Germans were using foreign forced labour and slavery on a massive scale.
__________________
Nick Beale
http://www.ghostbombers.com
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 14th November 2018, 09:47
Alfred.MONZAT's Avatar
Alfred.MONZAT Alfred.MONZAT is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 311
Alfred.MONZAT is on a distinguished road
Re: Bf 109 vs. Spitfire production costs

The Spitfire is know as an industrial nightmare (more than 10,000 man-hours IIRC) so I would also like to see what would made the Spitfire cheaper than the Bf 109, particulary after what said the aformentioned book.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 14th November 2018, 10:55
Bruce Dennis Bruce Dennis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 533
Bruce Dennis is on a distinguished road
Re: Bf 109 vs. Spitfire production costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukka Juutinen View Post
I don't trust that book.
What have you found that is incorrect in the book?

Bruce
__________________
http://www.filephotoservice.co.uk/
RESEARCH AT THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES & OTHER UK INSTITUTIONS
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 15th November 2018, 07:32
Jukka Juutinen Jukka Juutinen is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 913
Jukka Juutinen is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Bf 109 vs. Spitfire production costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfred.MONZAT View Post
The Spitfire is know as an industrial nightmare (more than 10,000 man-hours IIRC) so I would also like to see what would made the Spitfire cheaper than the Bf 109, particulary after what said the aformentioned book.
Then take a look at Rüdiger Kosin's The German Fighter since 1915. He also criticizes 109 structure as difficult to construct. And given Kosin's background, I believe him over David C. Isby any day.

The document George Hopp quoted was based on the assumption of the Spitfire being built by German industry. This makes the comparison much more valid.
__________________
"No man, no problem." Josef Stalin possibly said...:-)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 15th November 2018, 10:35
Bruce Dennis Bruce Dennis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 533
Bruce Dennis is on a distinguished road
Re: Bf 109 vs. Spitfire production costs

What have you found in the book 'The Decisive Duel: Spitfire Vs 109' to be incorrect?
__________________
http://www.filephotoservice.co.uk/
RESEARCH AT THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES & OTHER UK INSTITUTIONS
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 15th November 2018, 18:09
Jukka Juutinen Jukka Juutinen is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 913
Jukka Juutinen is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Bf 109 vs. Spitfire production costs

It's a long time since I read samples of the book, but my instant reaction at that time was "Oh no, another regurgitation without archival research".
__________________
"No man, no problem." Josef Stalin possibly said...:-)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 15th November 2018, 18:17
Bruce Dennis Bruce Dennis is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 533
Bruce Dennis is on a distinguished road
Re: Bf 109 vs. Spitfire production costs

I am glad to tell you that there was a great deal of archival research put into the book. There are 53 pages of source notes at the end giving many, many file refs.
__________________
http://www.filephotoservice.co.uk/
RESEARCH AT THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES & OTHER UK INSTITUTIONS
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Small case study: Bf 109 D vs. French fighters GuerraCivil Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 7 8th October 2015 11:23
Searching for Crashplaces around the City of Karlsruhe Targa888 Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 13 17th July 2014 04:34
Question about octane fuel requirements for DB601A and DB601N engines for the Bf109E Larry Hickey Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 14 13th October 2012 08:47
Searching a fate of Bf110C-7's. Evgeny Velichko Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 18 2nd March 2011 14:32
Messerschmitt Bf 109G Production Costs? Dénes Bernád Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces 11 22nd March 2006 00:14


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:41.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net