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  #1  
Old 21st June 2010, 00:24
Leo Etgen Leo Etgen is offline
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Hauptmann Johannes Kiel - 29 January 1944
Hello all

Hauptmann Johannes Kiel (at least 20 victories, RK), Gruppenkommandeur of III./ZG 26, was shot down and killed in aerial combat with USAAF fighters over Kirchheimsboloden on 29 January 1944. Although he perished his Bordfunker was able to bail out successfully. Would anyone have the loss list information for the Bf 110 G-2 that he was flying that day? Obermaier does not list this information so perhaps it is not available. Many thanks.

Horrido!

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  #2  
Old 21st June 2010, 01:15
thenelm thenelm is offline
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Re: Hauptmann Johannes Kiel - 29 January 1944
Aircraft details are not listed in the Ring report for ZG 76 either!
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Old 21st June 2010, 10:10
Khorat Khorat is offline
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Re: Hauptmann Johannes Kiel - 29 January 1944
and not listed in the "Namentliche Verlustmeldung" of the WASt.

khorat
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Old 21st June 2010, 10:39
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Re: Hauptmann Johannes Kiel - 29 January 1944
Leo:

As well as I know (Peter will correct me if I am wrong), Hptm. Johannes Kiel was Gr.Kdr. of new formed III./ZG76, wich received most aircrafts from II./ZG1 and III./ZG26 (he was StaKa in III./ZG26 before appointment).

Also, he was killed by B-17 gunners, I think he was attacking from rear after launching his WGr.21, and was unfortunate to catch a burst from Rear-gunner(s) from bomber formation. Thats why his gunner was able to bail out.
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Last edited by Evgeny Velichko; 21st June 2010 at 12:30.
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  #5  
Old 21st June 2010, 10:50
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Re: Hauptmann Johannes Kiel - 29 January 1944
Can confirm just the first part. The second one, about attack circumstances is highly probable, but not confirmed...
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Old 21st June 2010, 11:40
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Re: Hauptmann Johannes Kiel - 29 January 1944
Thats what I've read somewhere...
We must try to mach this (and all other III./ZG76) losses with USAAF fighter claims onthat area and day.
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Old 21st June 2010, 11:46
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Re: Hauptmann Johannes Kiel - 29 January 1944
quite nice joke, to match usaaf claims with losses...
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  #8  
Old 21st June 2010, 12:28
Evgeny Velichko's Avatar
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Re: Hauptmann Johannes Kiel - 29 January 1944
"WHO SAID HERE SOMETHING ABOUT OVERCLAIM?!?!?"

Hahaha,yep I know.

Let s just findout,how many claims had USAAF fighters andbomber gunners on that day.
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Old 21st June 2010, 12:46
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Re: Hauptmann Johannes Kiel - 29 January 1944
here are known claims...

LIPSCOMB LAWSON L 1LT AO00666964 308FTR SQ MTO 1,00 Bf 109 440129 1,00
SKINNER WILLIAM J 2LT AO00795656 308FTR SQ MTO 1,00 Bf 109 440129 1,00
BRYAN DONALD S 1LT AO00727398 328FTR SQ ETO 0,50 440129 0,50
COLEMAN JOHN B JR 1LT AO00667040 328FTR SQ ETO 1,00 440129 2,33
QUINN QUENTIN L 1LT AO00732360 328FTR SQ ETO 0,50 440129 0,50
BEESON DUANE W 1LT AO00885184 4th FG 334th FS ETO Aachen, Germany 1,00 Bf 109 440129 8,00
BEESON DUANE W 1LT AO00885184 4th FG 334th FS ETO Aachen, Germany 1,00 Fw 190 440129 9,00
CHATTERLEY ARCHIE W 1LT AO00885418 4th FG 334th FS ETO Aachen, Germany 1,00 Bf 109 440129 1,00
FRANCE VICTOR J 1LT AO00885176 4th FG 334th FS ETO Hasselt, Belgium 1,00 Fw 190 440129 2,00
MILLS HENRY L CPT AO00885187 4th FG 334th FS ETO Aachen, Germany 2,00 Bf 109 440129 4,00
PISSANOS SPIROS N 1LT AO00885405 4th FG 334th FS ETO Hasselt, Belgium 2,00 Bf 109 440129 4,00
WHALEN EDMUND D 1LT AO00886143 4th FG 334th FS ETO Aachen, Germany 1,00 Bf 109 440129 2,50
LARSEN HARRY E 1LT AO00743347 338FTR SQ ETO Frankfurt, Germany 1,00 Fw 190 440129 1,00
BEERBOWER DON Merrill CPT AO00730341 353FTR SQ ETO 1,00 440129 3,00
MESERVE ROBERT L 1LT AO00442289 353FTR SQ ETO 1,00 440129 1,00
GUMM CHARLES F JR 1LT AO00730466 355FTR SQ ETO 1,00 440129 2,00
LASKO CHARLES W CPT AO00730540 355FTR SQ ETO 1,00 440129 1,00
MACURDY HAROLD H 1LT AO00673400 358FTR SQ ETO Koblenz, Germany 1,00 Bf 109 440129 1110 1,00
MACURDY HAROLD H 1LT AO00673400 358FTR SQ ETO NW Aachen, Germany 1,00 Fw 190 440129 2,00
L'HEUREUX ROBERT C 1LT AO00795991 360FTR SQ ETO 1,00 440129 1,00
GRAY ROCKFORD V MAJ AO00427720 369FTR SQ ETO 0,50 440129 0,50
OLIPHANT JOHN H 2LT AO00674390 369FTR SQ ETO 0,50 440129 0,50
DAVIS CLAYTON E 1LT AO00666887 487FTR SQ ETO 1,00 440129 1,00
MERONEY VIRGIL K 1LT AO00732305 487FTR SQ ETO 1,00 440129 4,00
PREDDY GEORGE Earl CPT AO00430846 487FTR SQ ETO Malmedy 1,00 Fw 190 440129 3,00
WHISNER WILLIAM T JR. 1LT AO00798190 487FTR SQ ETO 1,00 Fw 190 440129 1,00
HOLMQUIST GEORGE W MAJ AO00397394 523FTR SQ MTO 1,00 440129 2,00
FREY ROYAL D 2LT AO00746079 55FTR SQ ETO 1,00 440129 1,00
HALLBERG CHESTER A 2LT AO00746096 55FTR SQ ETO 1,00 440129 1,00
MCLARY MAURICE R CPT AO00441851 55FTR SQ ETO 1,00 440129 1,00
BENNETT JOSEPH H CPT AO00431841 61FTR SQ ETO 1,50 440129 2,50
GABRESKI FRANCIS Stanley LTC AO00406131 61FTR SQ ETO 1,00 440129 9,00
NEYLAND PRAEGER 2LT AO00686864 61FTR SQ ETO 0,50 440129 0,50
WOOD MELVIN C 2LT AO00736450 61FTR SQ ETO 1,00 440129 1,50
CAVALLO ANTHONY S 2LT AO02044946 63FTR SQ ETO 1,00 440129 1,00
ANDRUS IVAN I 1LT AO00798143 65FTR SQ MTO 1,00 440129 1,00
BOND RICHARD T 1LT AO00730355 77FTR SQ ETO 0,50 440129 0,50
FLYNN ROBERT S 2LT AO00746072 77FTR SQ ETO 0,50 440129 0,50
MACHEN EVAN J 1LT AO00730549 77FTR SQ ETO 1,00 440129 1,00
WHITESIDE WALKER L 2LT AO00736439 77FTR SQ ETO 1,50 440129 1,50
GRAHAM LINDOL French CPT AO00791302 79FTR SQ ETO 3,00 Fw 190 440129 3,00
OTT RICHARD L MAJ AO00416336 79FTR SQ ETO 1,50 440129 1,50
JONES VERNON Y 2LT AO00799572 82FTR SQ ETO 0,50 440129 0,50
MARTINEZ MANUEL S 1LT AO02044858 82FTR SQ ETO 1,00 440129 4,00
SWANSON WILLIAM S 1LT AO00793026 82FTR SQ ETO 1,00 440129 1,00
DAYHUFF HARRY J LTC AO00404135 78th FG ETO 0,50 440129 1,50
SCHILLING DAVID C LTC AO00393204 56th FG ETO 1,00 440129 9,50

can someone add the types where missing? to exclude single engine fighters....?
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  #10  
Old 21st June 2010, 13:18
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Re: Hauptmann Johannes Kiel - 29 January 1944
So,it gives following unknowns:

328FTR SQ - 1 pers. + 1 shared between two pilots.
353FTR SQ - 4 pers.
360FTR SQ - 1 pers.
369FTR SQ - 1 shared between two pilots.
487FTR SQ - 4 pers. (2 Fw190 and 2 unknown)
523FTR SQ - 1 pers(but note MTO)
55FTR SQ - 3 pers.
61FTR SQ -3 pers.+1 shared between 2 pilots
63FTR SQ - 1 pers.
65FTR SQ - 1 pers. MTO
77FTR SQ - 1pers.+ 2 shared between 4 pilots
79FTR SQ - 4 pers (3 Fw190) + 1 shared between 2 pilots
82FTR SQ - 2 pers. + 1 shared between 2 pilots
78th FG - 1 sharedwith another pilot
56th FG - 1 personal.

Peter - what was overall losses of III./ZG76 for that day?And for all participated Bf110G +Me410A?
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