|
Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Staraya Russa on 06/03/43
Hello All
In the book Black Cross/Red Star vol.4 (page 253),according to C.Bergström,Munderloch and Wolf shot down each one Il-2 (15. for Wolf) and Wefers one Yak-1. I don't find these facts in the list of T.Wood.....T.Wood's list is incomplete? Other Strangeness: "The german ace (Beisswenger).....opened fire,and saw how his cannon hits set the Yak-1 smoking???"..... How do we know this? Beisswenger having been shot down and killed....No witness (Wolf) to confirm this. So...any idea? Thanks in advance Michel |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Staraya Russa on 06/03/43
For 6-Mar-43 none of the first three guys you mention had a confirmed claim. I'm going to guess that the correct date might be 5-Mar-43 since that was the only time the 3 pilots you mentioned all made claims on the same day when all were in the same Staffel. Munderloh went missing the next day.
As to your question "T.Wood's list is incomplete?" In a word, yes. For 5-Mar it looks like all the "official" info is there (assuming of course I have the right date). Date, Rank, Fname, Lname, Gruppe, Staffel, JG, Claimed, Location, Time, ClaimNo, Unit_Cl, RLM, Prim_Source, Conf_No, Sec_Source, Notes 05-Mar-43, Oblt., Hans, Beißwenger, II., 6., JG 54, LaGG-3, PlQu. 35 Ost / 29 773: 1000m, 06.48, 147., 1542, yes, C.2032/II, Anerk: Nr. 500, Prien/Bock, 05-Mar-43, Uffz., Albin, Wolf, II., 6., JG 54, Il-2, PlQu. 35 Ost / 18 423: 150m, 07.30, 14., 1543, yes, C.2032/II, Anerk: Nr. 501, Prien/Bock, 05-Mar-43, Oblt., Hans, Beißwenger, II., 6., JG 54, Jak-1, PlQu. 35 Ost / 18 221: 500m, 09.42, 148., 1544, yes, C.2032/II, Anerk: Nr. 502, Prien/Bock, 05-Mar-43, Oblt., Hans, Beißwenger, II., 6., JG 54, Jak-1, PlQu. 35 Ost / 18 222: 600m, 09.43, 149., 1545, yes, C.2032/II, Anerk: Nr. 503, Prien/Bock, 05-Mar-43, Uffz., Georg, Munderloh, II., 6., JG 54, LaGG-3, PlQu. 35 Ost / 18 323: 2100m, 11.25, 17., 1546, yes, C.2032/II, Anerk: Nr. 504, Prien/Bock, 05-Mar-43, Uffz., Georg, Munderloh, II., 6., JG 54, Il-2, PlQu. 35 Ost / 18 134: 2000m, 13.48, 18., 1547, yes, C.2032/II, Anerk: Nr. 505, Prien/Bock, 05-Mar-43, Oblt., Hans, Beißwenger, II., 6., JG 54, Il-2, PlQu. 35 Ost / 18 213: 1200m, 13.50, 150., 1548, yes, C.2032/II, Anerk: Nr. 506, Prien/Bock, 05-Mar-43, Ofw., Heinrich, Wefers, II., 6., JG 54, Jak-1, PlQu. 35 Ost / 18 214: 1000m, 13.53, 49., 1549, yes, C.2032/II, Anerk: Nr. 507, Prien/Bock, 05-Mar-43, Uffz., Albin, Wolf, II., 6., JG 54, Il-2, PlQu. 35 Ost / 18 212: 100m, 13.55, 15., 1551, yes, C.2032/II, Anerk: Nr. 508, Prien/Bock, 05-Mar-43, Oblt., Hans, Beißwenger, II., 6., JG 54, Jak-1, PlQu. 35 Ost / 18 223: Tiefflug, 13.57, 151., 1552, yes, C.2032/II, Anerk: Nr. 509, Prien/Bock, 05-Mar-43, Fw., Heinrich, Sterr, II., 6., JG 54, La-5, PlQu. 35 Ost / 18 364: 1800m, 16.16, 22., 1553, yes, C.2032/II, Anerk: Nr. 510, Prien/Bock, 05-Mar-43, Fw., Heinrich, Sterr, II., 6., JG 54, La-5, PlQu. 35 Ost / 18 362: 1200m, 16.17, 23., 1554, yes, C.2032/II, Anerk: Nr. 511, Prien/Bock, 05-Mar-43, Uffz., Albin, Wolf, II., 6., JG 54, La-5, PlQu. 35 Ost / 18 391: 1000m, 16.18, 16., 1555, yes, C.2032/II, Anerk: Nr. 512, Prien/Bock, 05-Mar-43, Uffz., Johann, Fieber, II., 6., JG 54, LaGG-3, PlQu. 35 Ost / 18 471: 1000m, 16.20, 17., 1556, yes, C.2032/II, Anerk: Nr. 512, Prien/Bock, 6-Mar-43 06-Mar-43, Uffz., Georg, Munderloh, II., 6., JG 54, LaGG-3, -, -, n.b., -, no, Prien/Bock, , , 06-Mar-43, Uffz., Georg, Munderloh, II., 6., JG 54, LaGG-3, -, -, n.b., -, no, Prien/Bock, , , 06-Mar-43, Uffz., Georg, Munderloh, II., 6., JG 54, LaGG-3, -, -, n.b., -, no, Prien/Bock, , , 06-Mar-43, Oblt., Hans, Beißwenger, II., 6., JG 54, LaGG-3, PlQu. 35 Ost / 18 364: 1000m, 14.53, 152., 1560, yes, C.2032/II, Anerk: Nr. 514, Prien/Bock, 06-Mar-43, Uffz., Johann, Fieber, II., 6., JG 54, LaGG-3, PlQu. 35 Ost / 18 443: 800m, 14.55, 18., 1561, yes, C.2032/II, Anerk: Nr. 515, Prien/Bock, 06-Mar-43, Oblt., Hans, Beißwenger, II., 6., JG 54, LaGG-3, PlQu. 35 Ost / 18 443: 600m, 14.57, 153., 1562, yes, C.2032/II, Anerk: Nr. 516, Prien/Bock, |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Staraya Russa on 06/03/43
It also my deduction that the correct date is the 05.
This is not very serious (43 € ) Among othersage.225 the 2 Yaks-1 (21 IAP) lost ,turns into Yaks-7 !!! page .226. Well,OK. "quid" of the claim of Xaver Müller (05/03) LaGG-3"? Michel |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Staraya Russa on 06/03/43
Yes, the sentence about Wolf shooting down an Il-2 on March 6, 1943 is a typo. It is a remain from an earlier manuscript version, where this initially was placed on March 5, but with copy+paste when editing a manuscript, such things can happen if you are unlucky. Thank you for pointing that out to me.
Munderloh's claim for an Il-2 is from his own account. About Beisswenger "opening fire,and seeing how his cannon hit the Yak-1" - How do we know this? Yes, Beisswenger having been shot down and killed. Well, he was rammed and posted as missing. How can I conclude that he saw his bullets hit the Yak-1? - Well, because the Soviet report confirms that his cannon did hit the Yak-1. The only thing that I conclude here is that Beisswenger could see the Yak-1 which he opened fire at in the moment when he opened fire. It is my conclusion that he did not close his eyes when he out-turned the Yak-1 and was in position a few tens of meters from it. I failed to find any Yaks-1s on page 226, "turned into Yaks-7". I am most grateful for any errors that can be pointed out to me in this 200,000-word book. I saw this post by pure chance, and hope that next time anyone who finds another error will also email me about it: vaktelforlag@gmail.com I will soon post an errata to my website, and when I make a new edition, I will have all identified errors corrected. Regarding Luftwaffe claims lists, neither Tony Wood's nor Prien's are without flaws. (How could they be?) |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Gerhard Beutin 3/JG 54 claims | GMichalski | Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces | 11 | 28th March 2020 01:27 |
JG54 losses, 7.3.43, South of Staraya Russa | Evgeny Velichko | Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces | 5 | 26th July 2013 08:54 |