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  #41  
Old 16th November 2018, 15:24
kirche kirche is offline
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Re: Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knusel View Post
do you know how many pilots took part in the group kills that were scored by Pyotr Abramov in 1939 ?
Hello, Michael
under one version:
"Aviation and Cosmonautics" magazine №12, 2000 (Anatoly Demin "Soviet fighters in the sky of China (1937 – beginning of 1940-ies)")
or "In the sky of China. 1937-1940. Memories of the Soviet pilots-volunteers." (http://militera.lib.ru/memo/russian/...sky/pre.html):
"...In the RAID 20 Feb 1939 30 Japanese bombers, flying in three groups (according to the memoirs of S. V. Slyusarev) tried to force our fighters to fly ahead of time and in the midst of battle to remain without fuel. But the Chinese, following the instructions of advisers, were in no hurry to lift fighters into the air. Small groups with five-minute intervals in the air rose 40 fighters, consistently attacked the Japanese. Nine bombers were shot down and 63 crew members were killed. One Soviet volunteer was wounded in the battle. That day, the bombs fell on the city, not the airbase. Three days later, on February 23, a group of 57 bombers went to Lanzhou, but only the first group of 20 planes reached the city. Attacking them on the way, the fighters shot down six planes and did not pursue the rest, awaiting the approach of the following groups. But those were bombed on spare targets...
...The Japanese were flying the Italian Fiat BR.20, later on Mitsubishi Ki 21 ("type 97")...
... In the February battles over Lanzhou, along with volunteers ("Special detachment" (? a/c]) and" F. F. Zherebchenko's group" (10 И-16), participated and Chinese pilots of the 17th squadron (10 I-15), as written by Taiwanese, all three times they "won a complete victory"..."

in another version:
"In order to Lanzhou and the surrounding area worked the same three Japanese bomber regiment. They flew from Yuncheng airfield in Shanxi province, at the limit of range BR.20. Flew without cover-fighters range is not enough. In the first RAID were part of the machine from all three regiments. Chinese and Soviet fighters intercepted the bombers on the approach and caused them significant losses.
On February 12, Soviet-Chinese pilots discovered a group of about 30 Japanese aircraft approaching Lanzhou. Seeing coming to meet them fighters, 18 bombers still 10-15 km from the target turned back.
February 20, the RAID was attended by 20 Japanese a/c, flying in three groups. They were met by 29 fighters. According to Soviet data, the enemy lost nine bombers. Losses of group of Zherebchenko made that day only one wounded pilot. The Japanese were unable to break through to the airfield and dropped bombs on the city.
On February 23, Lanzhou was attacked by 12 aircraft. Again on the approach they were intercepted by fighters. To the airfield was able to get only a small group, the rest were bombed on reserve targets."

Best regards
Kirill
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  #42  
Old 16th November 2018, 20:15
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knusel knusel is offline
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Re: Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?

Good evening Kirill,

thanks for your post.
You mean at least 29 pilots shared in Abramov's 9 group kills on 20Feb1939 ?

Have a nice weekend,

Michael
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  #43  
Old 19th November 2018, 17:23
Håkan Håkan is offline
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Re: Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?

Hello again,

Regarding the combat on 20/02/39, the info from Russian sources are like the one presented nicely by Kirill. However according to Chinese/Taiwanese info, four of the claims were credited to four individual pilots for which they were decorated. Thus it's not certain that Abramov should be credited with these claims. All Russian sources I've seen states only that nine aircraft were claimed in total. Actually I never seen anything close to official Russian combat reports from China.
See my site at:
http://surfcity.kund.dalnet.se/sino-japanese-1939.htm

Best wishes/Håkan
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  #44  
Old 20th November 2018, 12:28
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knusel knusel is offline
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Re: Polikarpov I-16 top ace - Vasilii Golubyev ?

Good morning Håkan & Kirill,

is it justified to say that Abramov's share of the kills on 20Feb1939 is not bigger than 9 kills divided by 10 pilots ?
(That would dismiss him from I-16 top ten ace list.)

Have a nice Tuesday,

Michael
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