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  #41  
Old 2nd May 2008, 21:21
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Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.

O6 May 43 Raid on Poltava and Osnova(?) airfields
Bostons of the 454 BAP drop bombs on their targets. On returning to there lines they are attacked by Bf-109's. Ml. Lt. N.A. Shumikhina's Boston is hit and crew bail out. Shumikhina and Sgt V.S. Yevsey are WIA.
Uffz Gerhard Thyben 6/JG3 claims a Boston at 04:45 (70395).
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  #42  
Old 2nd May 2008, 23:07
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Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.

actually:

Shumikhin

"a" means that person is a female. For example - "he" - Kuznetsov, "she" Kuznetsova

But in same time, the same "a" letter means "by" or "of".

For example:

"Aircraft of Kuznetsov" will be "Самолёт Кузнецова"

"Boston of Shumikhin" will be "Бостон Шумихина"
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  #43  
Old 3rd May 2008, 02:19
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Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.

06 May 43 19:15
Kramatorskaya airfield
6 Il-2 775 ShAP
6 La-5 GIAP
10 Yak-1 867 IAP

Losses for 775 ShAP: four Il-2 shot down by Bf-109's
Losses for 867 IAP: Yak-1 in Torskaya(?) region by unk
Losses for 5 GIAP: La-5 hit by AAA but possibly could have been shot down by a fighter.
VVS claims: FW-190 and a Bf-109
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  #44  
Old 3rd May 2008, 15:03
Dénes Bernád Dénes Bernád is offline
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Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.

ARR Bf 109Gs claimed that day 2 Il-2s and 4 LaGGs (plus another one probable), in the Kramatorskaya-Slavjyansk area. However, the claims were scored early in the morning, not in the evening.
Two Rumanian '109s were hit in air battle, but both returned to the base.
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  #45  
Old 3rd May 2008, 16:45
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Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.

Oki, Nokose.

I'll try to make some additional lists. I think it is much easier for me than for You. I understand You have language troubles reading a book.
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  #46  
Old 3rd May 2008, 16:49
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Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.

Quote:
6 may 1943:
1 VA raids:

1 - Raid to attack airfields Shatalovo and Borovskoye(~4:30)

To Borovskoye:

10 x Il-2 (leader Major Karyakin, 198 shap)
6 x Il-2 (leader Ml.Ltn. Egorov, 62 shap) with close escort of ?? x Yak-1 (leader St.Lt. Seroglazov, 162 iap)
4 x Il-2 (leader St.Lt. Alferov, 312 shap).

To Shatalovo:

5 x Il-2 (leader Major St.Lt.M.Stupishin, 312 shap) with close escort of 2 x La-5 (leader Kap.Chalbash, 49 iap)

--------------------------
Road to target:


Over Yelnya group of 312 shap came under attack of 6 x Fw190+Bf109's.

Losses:
Il-2 (Ml.Lt. I.Pastukhov, 312 shap) shot down by Fw190, crashed at 10km NE Yelnya;
Il-2 (Ml.Lt. L.Komarovskiy, 312 shap) shot down by Fw190, crashed at area Shatalovo;

--------------------------
Over the target:

Result of attack on both airfield is not seen because of aircombat.

---------------------
Road from target to home bases:


~6:25 group of 312 shap came under attack of 1 Bf110.
~6:30 group came under attack of large group of Fw190

Losses:

Il-2 (312 shap) heavy damaged by Bf110, crashlanded at his base airfield;
Il-2 (312 shap) heavy damaged by Bf110, crashlanded at his base airfield;
Il-2 (312 shap) heavy damaged by Bf110, crashlanded at his base airfield;

Claims:

Bf110 shot down by Il-2 gunners (Ml.Serj. Zubrarev - WiA, 62 shap), crashed in area of Baltunino;
Fw190 shot down by Il-2 gunners (312 shap), crashed and burned in area of Borovskoye;
Fw190 shot down by La-5 (Kap.Chalbash, 49 iap), crashed in area of Zhary;
Fw190 shot down by Yak-1 (St.Lt. Seroglazov, 162 iap), crashed in area of airfield;

2 - Raid to attack airfield Borovskoye (19:20-19:25)<<<<<writing description in progress>>>>
3 - Raid to attack airfield Sescha (5:30-5:45)
4 - Raid to attack airfield Bryansk (5:17-5:37)
5 - Raid to attack airfield Lubinka (~12:00)
6 - Raid to attack airfield Lubinka (~17:00)
7 - Raid to attack airfield Lubinka (~19:00)

2 VA raids:

1 - Raid to attack airfield Rogan (~5:20)
2 - Raid to attack airfield Kharkov-Aleshki (5:20-5:30)
3 - Raid to attack airfield Kharkov-Sokol'niki (5:30-5:32)
4 - Raid to attack airfields Poltava and Osnova
5 - Raid to attack airfield Kharkov-Sokol'niki (~15:00)
6 - Raid to attack airfield Kharkov-Aleshki (~15:00)

17 VA raids:

1 - Raid to attack airfield Kramatorskaya (5:03 - 5:17)
2 - Raid to attack airfield Kramatorskaya (~19:15)
3 - Raid to attack airfield Dnepropetrovsk-South (~6:10)

15 VA raid:

1 - Raid to attack airfield Orel-Central (~6:30)

16 VA raids:

1 - Raid to attack airfield Bolshaya Kulikovka
2 - Raid to attack airfield Orel-GVF (~14:30)
3 - Raid to attack airfield Khmelevaya and Gat' (Knubr') (14:28 - 14:30)
4 - Raid to attack airfield Orel-Central (~14:20)
5 - Raid to attack airfield Orel-Central (14:30 - 14:35)

8 VA raids:

1 - Raid to attack airfield Kutejnikovo (~13:00)
2 - Raid to attack airfield Stalino (~5:45)

Quote:
7 may 1943:
16 VA raids:

1 - Raid to attack airfield Bolshaya Kulikovka (~5:22)
2 - Raid to attack airfields Khmelevaya (5:50-5:55) and Orel-Central (~6:00)

2 VA raids:

1 - Raid to attack airfields Kharkov-Aleshki and Kharkov-Sokol'niki (evening)
2 - Raid to attack airfield Rogan' (~19:15)

1 VA raids:

1 - Raid to attack airfield Sescha (~5:00)
2 - Raid to attack airfield Bryansk (~5:07)
3 - Raid to attack airfield Lubinka

8 VA raids:

1 - Raid to attack airfield Ilovajsk (~8:45)
2 - Raid to attack airfield Ilovajsk (~14:25)
3 - Raid to attack airfield Kutejnikovo (~9:00)
4 - Raid to attack airfield Stalino (~9:00)
5 - Raid to attack airfield Kramatorskaya (~5:10)
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Last edited by Evgeny Velichko; 3rd May 2008 at 19:22.
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  #47  
Old 3rd May 2008, 17:05
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Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.

Briefly I can tell, that the most TRAGICAL raids were:

Quote:
6 may 1943
16 VA raids:
2 - Raid to attack airfield Orel-GVF (~14:30)
16 x Il-2 of 41 shap escorted by Yak-1 of 896 iap:

- claimed 2 x Bf109
- lost 16 x Il-2 !!!, and 2 Yak-1....

Quote:
6 may 1943
16 VA raids:
5 - Raid to attack airfield Orel-Central (14:30 - 14:35)
15 x Il-2 of 79 gshap, with escort of 8 x Yak-1 of 563 iap and 8 x Yak-7B 519 iap:

-claimed 8 x Fw190;
-lost 7 x Il-2, and 1 Yak-1

Quote:
7 may 1943
16 VA raids:
1 - Raid to attack airfield Bolshaya Kulikovka (~5:22)
14 x Il-2 of 218 shap, with escort of 12 La-5 of 297 iap and fighter sweep of 8 x Yak-1 of 896 iap:

-claimed 2 x Fw190;
-lost 6 x Il-2, 3 x La-5, 2 x Yak-1.

Quote:
2 - Raid to attack airfields Khmelevaya (5:50-5:55) and Orel-Central (~6:00)
6 x Il-2 of 79 gshap, 6 x Il-2 of 58 gshap, with escort of 5 x Yak-1 of 563 iap and 5 x Yak-1 of 176 iap;

-claimed: 3 x Fw190 and 2 x Bf109;
-lost: 3 x Yak-1, 12 x Il-2!!!

Quote:
8 VA raids:
5 - Raid to attack airfield Kramatorskaya (~5:10)
18 x A-20 Boston (861 bap) with escort of 7 x La-5 of 5 giap, and 7 x Yak-1 of 867 iap;

-claimed: 1 x Fw190 and 5 x Bf109;
-lost: 1 x La-5 and 6 x A-20...
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  #48  
Old 4th May 2008, 19:18
Leo Etgen Leo Etgen is offline
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6/7 May 1943

Hi guys

Again, many thanks to Nokose and Evgeny for their efforts. In attempting to match up which units engaged which raids, could it be that:

6 May 1943
Orel-GVF at 14:30 was opposed by Stabsstaffel and I./JG 51
Orel-Central at 14:30 was opposed by IV./JG 51
Kramatorskaya at 19:15 was opposed by III./JG 3

7 May 1943
Kramatorskaya at 5:10 was opposed by III./JG 3

However, the raids against Bolshaya Kulikovka, Khmelevaya and Orel-Central seems to have been opposed by I., III. and IV./JG 51 and I am unable to sort out who fought who. Do either of you guys have any idea how to figure this out if it is possible? Of course, I realize that in an engagement such as this with multiple units engaged in the same general area and time it is most likely impossible to do so.

Horrido!

Leo
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  #49  
Old 5th May 2008, 00:45
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Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.

Evgeny, Nokose, Leo and Dénes

Thanks a lot for the excellent and interesting info!

Juha
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  #50  
Old 5th May 2008, 17:39
Dénes Bernád Dénes Bernád is offline
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Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.

The Rumanian victory claims for May 6, I mentioned earlier, were logged between 4:00 and 4:30 a.m. (possibly Bucharest's time, i.e. Moscow's time-2 hrs.).

Next day, a Rumanian fighter pilot claims an Il-2 near Slavyansk. No timing is available to me), while on May 9 two more LaGG-3s were claimed, also in the same area.
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