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  #21  
Old 1st January 2018, 00:02
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: P-38 lost over Bulgaria on 26 August 1944?

Unless it was a USAAF P38/F4/F5 which seems unlikely.
Or unless Germany and its allies had one in the area for some kind of training.
Or unless the Soviets had acquired a serviceable one which may have been possible.
I do not recall any Soviet type that remotely looked like a P38.
The Only other explanation is that it was perhaps an FW 189, maybe they were in that region as they were mostly used for training. Anyone know of any FW189 Units in the region ?
I cannot think of any other a/c that would in a combat situation, at a quick glance look remotely like a P38 ?
Alex
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  #22  
Old 1st January 2018, 01:26
PMoz99 PMoz99 is offline
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Re: P-38 lost over Bulgaria on 26 August 1944?

Fokker G.1?
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  #23  
Old 1st January 2018, 03:00
kaki3152 kaki3152 is online now
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Re: P-38 lost over Bulgaria on 26 August 1944?

FW-189
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  #24  
Old 1st January 2018, 16:25
Dénes Bernád Dénes Bernád is offline
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Re: P-38 lost over Bulgaria on 26 August 1944?

Thank you, guys, for your inputs.
One key to solve this issue would be to find out what did 97th FS, 82nd FG, do on 26 August 1944? I could not find a description of the combat activity of this FS/FG.
I don't believe Stoyanov either identified wrongly the type, or he lied. He did not shoot down either a Fw 189, or a Soviet aircraft. It wasn't a recce version, either. So, I am convinced there was an air battle with P-38s over Bulgaria on that final USAAF mission over Bulgaria (there were many witnesses to it).
We need to identify which USAAF unit it was to get any closer to the solution.
P.S. Besides Stoyanov being officially credited with an air victory, three other Bulgarian pilots claimed P-38s, but were not credited with any.
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  #25  
Old 1st January 2018, 17:25
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: P-38 lost over Bulgaria on 26 August 1944?

Hello researcher 111,
In post 9 you noted the following excert -

"Adorimini " page 205 states that Maj Gardner
led the escort mission to Romania , on the way home
16 enemy fighters engaged 82nd headon near Nis
though they quickly left the P-38's with no desire to fight .

From the excert if there were any losses would it not have been entered in the story line as to who was lost and how ?
My thoughts are that following combat, when the "enemy" thought they had shot down some P38's those P38's must only have been damaged and so were not lost. That would explain there not being any reference to losses in the text.

What does "Adorimini" have for the 25 th ?

Alex

Last edited by Alex Smart; 1st January 2018 at 18:09.
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  #26  
Old 1st January 2018, 17:42
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researcher111 researcher111 is offline
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Re: P-38 lost over Bulgaria on 26 August 1944?

Denes Bernard

From the info I have and history books of the 15th AF BG's and FG's which attacked
Pipera and Otopeni as well my entire data base which is very accurate, this is what I
can say about Stoyanov's claim :

- The ETA of the BG's at the target was planned for 10:30 am

- By aprox 11:30 am SSW of NIS the 82nd along with the
bombers entered accurate flack and were engaged by some 16 ME-109's

- The engagement took place S.of Nis

- If Stoyanov flew as far as Nis and hit one of the P-38's
then noticed trailing smoke that would explain his claim .

- From other records of 82nd FG there is no mention that any of the
P-38's were hit or experienced problems returning to base once the
engagement took place .Gardner caimed an MC-202 though this
also due to an error as this of Stoyanov because I doubt that
MC-202's were present in the area .


Stoyanov did not fly to the Greek border , there were no Russian or German
acfts with P-38 similarties involved neither Stoyanov claim was a real one .

Alex K

Last edited by researcher111; 2nd January 2018 at 17:47.
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  #27  
Old 1st January 2018, 18:23
Dénes Bernád Dénes Bernád is offline
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Re: P-38 lost over Bulgaria on 26 August 1944?

Thank you, Alex, for the information and the provided sources. The overall piucture became clearer.
Can you please specify which aircraft (s/n, unit) the 4 copied sources refer to?
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  #28  
Old 1st January 2018, 21:24
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Re: P-38 lost over Bulgaria on 26 August 1944?

The S/N's in question are :

41-28862, 42-78240,42-52635,42-78332

Alex K
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  #29  
Old 1st January 2018, 22:38
Rottler Rottler is offline
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Re: P-38 lost over Bulgaria on 26 August 1944?

41-28862 B-24 H-15-DT 455 BG/743 BS MACR 8086.

42-78240 B-24 G-10-NT 455 BG/742 BS MACR 9718.

42-52635 B-24 H-15-FO 484 BG/825 BS MACR 7955. A/C returned to base.
A/C was lost on 7 February 1945 near Plattensee/Balaton.
German Abschussnummer/Casualty No. ME 2804, MACR 12120.

42-78332 B-24 G-15-NT 461 BG/766 BS MACR 7962.
German Abschussnummer/Casualty No. ME 2181.

Regards
Leo
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  #30  
Old 2nd January 2018, 01:13
vathra vathra is offline
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Re: P-38 lost over Bulgaria on 26 August 1944?

I don't have any info on such loss in Serbia, nor Stanev has for Bulgaria.

If there is possibility that date is somehow wrong, there are 2 candidates:
- 42-67310, 82FG, Aug 19th, last seen in west Serbia.
- 44-23196, 1FG, Aug 21st, last seen near Niš.

Since both pilots were KIA, there is not much data in MACR, so I don't know how they were shot down.
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