Re: RAF Beaufort loss info needed 02 Sep 1941

[Danny152]

Hello all,

I am trying to obtain information of a RAF Beaufort that was shot down on 02 Sep 1941. I only have the date, estimated 1500Hrs, and rough area of operations, which was southwest of Stavanger.

Thanks

Danny

[Danny152]

I am hoping the information might be in with a report.

- Deutsche Luftwaffe Losses & Claims: Part 9 -II 16. September - 31. October 1941 in a report, does anyone have a copy?

Thanks

Danny

[dp_burke]

try the AIR81 database here on RAF Commands website:
http://www.rafcommands.com/database/air81/

AIR81/8809 Hudson V AM599 Flight Sergeant W C E Broomhead, Sergeant B L Thomas, Sergeant J M Christie, Sergeant G Law: killed; aircraft crashed at Hidra, Norway, Hudson AM599, 608 Squadron, 2 September 1941. With photograph and negatives.

Seems to be the only Norway loss for the day

Hidra is an island to the south of Stavanger
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Hi...6zL20vMGM2OWRo

https://www.flyvrak.info/risasen.html


Does that match?

[dp_burke]

loss lists on web archive
https://web.archive.org/web/20130928...s/tonywood.htm

No claims for a Beaufort that date.

What is your source for a Beaufort loss on that date? or what is the context of it? Eye witness? German record?

[Alex Smart]

Hi Dennis,

The Tony Woods list .
2/9/41
Why did you discount the claim made by Ltn.SCHOENERT, 4/NJG 1. Who claimed an unknown some 15 Km North of Wangerooge.

Maybe the Unknown was the Beaufort and it managed to reach Norway after the encounter with Schoenert ?
Also maybe the 15.00 hrs got mixed up with the 15 Km ?

Alex

[Stig Jarlevik]

Danny

According to Ross McNeill (Coastal Command losses Vol 1 1939-41) Beaufort AW218 OA-W was on a
shipping strike 2 Sep 1941 when it was, most likely shot down off Stavanger.
Crew was KIA
Take off stated as 13.45H from Leuchars
Sounds like your aircraft!

B Rgds
Stig

[Danny152]

All,

This is great news! And thank you for your help. I am trying to work out all Lutwaffe aces claims for my new book, on Major Henrich Ehler. I have been told this was one of his combat claims. Now that Stig has confirmed this shoot down and now need to see if it was Ehrler, or not.

Granted a Lutwaffe section question, but new to the German side, and if there was individual combat reports made?

Thanks

Danny

[MW Giles]

He has not confirmed it as a shoot down, just a claim

Three Beauforts (V, Q and W) took off on a Rover at 13:45 They were directed to attack shipping off Stavanger that had been reported by L/235 at 15:35 hrs. 2MVs were found of 7000 tons and 2500 tons escorted by a EV or small destroyer. Sighted at ZNEF5227 off Stavanger

Three torpedos released at 600-350 yds range and hits on larger MV claimed by V & Q. W failed to return, last seen gliding towards water (under control) with port engine on fire. Explosion seen towards stern of EV, presumably from W's torpedo. Heavy flak from EV

As soon as attack completed 5 Me109Fs sighted. Two attacked V and one hit by long effective burst at 10yds range. E/a broke away and gunner got in a further burst in belly, e/a half rolled and went down upside down. V&Q evaded further attacks and gained cloud cover.

This suggests that W had made its attack and crashed before the fighters came in. Returned 18:25 hrs

Two claims by 2/JG77 - Lt H. Ehler and Hptm H-C Schäfer for Beauforts SW of Stavanger. I do not have a time. One of them could be W, or they are making claims they cannot substantiate for V & Q

Martin

[Danny152]

Thanks Martin for confirmation

Is there a combat report for this, and is this recorded as probable... in RAF speak? The RAF report mentions a Me109 being shot down?

Thanks

Danny

[Stig Jarlevik]

Martin/Danny

As per Mombeek Ehrler did not claim anything on 2 Sep 1941
Beside Schäfer, Lt Robert Müller claimed the second Beaufort. Robert can in this case be a faulty
reading of Rudolf?

No losses by the German fighters on that date.

Just because the Beaufort crews did not see any fighters until after their attack does not mean
there wasn't any.....
It is always possible to read combat reports in a positive or negative way depending on "which side
one is on"....

Cheers
Stig