Marking of the 2nd Bomb Group Forts

[seesul]

Hello to all. I have a question regarding the marking of the 2nd BG B-17Gs related to the color of the bands on the wings and the color of the rudder and elevator of the NMF machines:

1) in the book "B-17 Flying Fotress in Color" by Steve Birdsdall I read following:
- 2 feet wide blue stripes on all the machines (outlined by white on machines with camo)
- moving parts of the tail (rudder and elevator) in blue on the machines without camo and in white on the machines with camo
2) in the book "B-17 Flyin Fortress Units of the MTO" by William N. Hess I read that the rudder was blue and wings stripes black (!)
3) in the book "Air Force Colors Volume 2 ETO & MTO 1942-1945" by Danna Bell she says the marking were black

Based on the b&w pics most of the people believe it was black and I also used to belong among them but the more info I´m gaining the more I believe it was really blue.

Could anyone bring a light on this? What was the real color? Black or blue? Also modellers seem to be confused as I´ve seen the models both with the black and blue rudder/elevator and stripes on the wings.

Some of you maybe saw the same request of mine on another forums like ww2aircraft.net or on FB but becuase I still didn't come to a clear conclusion I´m trying to ask here. I also asked here in another thread but because there was no reply at all I decided to create a separate request related only to this topic. Thank you for understanding.

Roman

Capture from Steve Birdsall's book.

Caption from the publication "Camouflage & Markings Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress 1937-1945

Profile of 44-6542, source https://www.markstyling.com/mto_b17s6.htm

The only to me known color pic of the 2nd BG Fort. Kingman, AZ, post war pic.
Although the rudder is dark, when you increase the pic and compare the bottom part of the rudder with the T symbol on tail the rudder seems to be a different color, maybe blue. Even the star on the fuselage doesn´t seem to be blue although it 100% was dark blue, so it's very hard to decide from this picture.

[Buckeye30]

Roman. This is the only other colour photo I've seen; no way to tell the colour though. If it was blue it's Insignia Blue and hard to tell from black even quite close up ( note only one wing stripe too).

The same comparisons come up with the Identification Blue bands on RAF Eastern Air Command fighters ( also Tenth AF) which look black but colour photos show them to be blue.
Nick

[seesul]

Wow, thank you very much Nick for this pic I've never seen before! If I only knew some one who could confirm the black oř blue...

[Buckeye30]

Hi Roman. Well I found another ! Certainly looks Insignia Blue here ( note 429th white bands); also Amendola with 2nd / 97th dispersals.
Regards
Nick

[Buckeye30]

Roman. Have you seen this database for later-model Forts ?
Nick

https://b17flyingfortress.de/en/bg/2...group/page/11/

[seesul]

Originally Posted by Buckeye30

Hi Roman. Well I found another ! Certainly looks Insignia Blue here ( note 429th white bands); also Amendola with 2nd / 97th dispersals.
Regards
Nick

Nick, is it color or colored pic?

[edwest2]

The following book may be helpful:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/07...api_taft_p1_i4

[Buckeye30]

Roman. I thought it was a colour photo but the blue on the rudders is too light, it would have been dark like Insignia Blue; this is the same photo from the American Air Museum archives. I suspect it's been colourised but I don't know why they chose blue ?
Nick

[seesul]

Originally Posted by edwest2

The following book may be helpful:


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/07...api_taft_p1_i4

Thank you very much please don't you have this book? Or anyone else? Thank you for trying to help me in advance.

[seesul]

Originally Posted by Buckeye30

Roman. I thought it was a colour photo but the blue on the rudders is too light, it would have been dark like Insignia Blue; this is the same photo from the American Air Museum archives. I suspect it's been colourised but I don't know why they chose blue ?
Nick

Yes Nick, strange . Maybe they have choosen the blue because of the books I mentioned.
Really confusing.