Exports to Japan

[pbhawkin]

Lennart,
I assume you are the author of the book on Soviet aviation and if so may I say what a superb book it is! Great information, pictures and drawings.

Peter H

[Lennart Andersson]

Yes, I am. Thank you very much. I am glad you liked it.

It is quite some time now since I made the research for that book and much new information has been published since then, at least if you are able to read Russian! If you are interested I can tell you that a new book with a lot of information that has never been published before is coming up. It is about civil aviation in the Soviet Union until 1945. Please take a look at
http://z-bok.se/catalog1.2.html
for more details!

If Artie Bob reads this post I would like to ask him again about the Junkers collection at the National Archives.

Best regards,
Lennart Andersson

Originally Posted by pbhawkin

Lennart,
I assume you are the author of the book on Soviet aviation and if so may I say what a superb book it is! Great information, pictures and drawings.

Peter H

[Tony Jones]

Hi

I have looked again at copies I took of original letters on exports on Japan and there is a list dated late 1943 of all a/c and engines exported to Japan via Fokkes & Koch (only firm allowed to export a/c to Japan), this list gives all sale prices and dates. There is no sale listed of any He 119 in 1941.
The list by Seaplanes is also "flawed" as there were 2 Ju 160 a/c exported in 1938, none on this list (a letter dated 8/9/38 complains that one of the two Ju 160 just delivered has already crashed a few days ago)
There were 2 x ju 88 in 1941 not on Seaplanes list and in 1942 2 Fw 190 are listed not just the one in Seaplanes list, 1943 3 Fw 190 all with c/n are listed not just the one in the Seaplanes doc.
The Seaplanes list has one He 116 in 1938 but there were two, one crashed in the Sahara in 6/43. The 1944 list therefore should not be taken as final and correct.
Nearly all the a/c exported in the files have the c/n listed
Finally in the many files inpected which appear complete from 1938-44 there is no mention at all of any He 100 a/c.

[Seaplanes]

Hello Tony,

you do have a lot of interesting details on aircraft exports from Germany.
Can you please give the record reference for these files.
I only gave the information directly from the document of Bundesarchiv in Freiburg in my previous reply.

[Lennart Andersson]

This is an interesting but rather complicated subject, even if original documents are used as sources. There are several causes for conflicting data: Export statistics will contain different figures if they reflect date of acceptance at the factory, date of dispatch from the factory or date of shipping, and these dates might be different for a batch of, say four aircraft. Some aircraft WERE delivered from the factory but were diverted or destroyed on their way to Japan so never arrived there.

Two He 119s were ordered by the Japanese Navy. Partial payments were made in 1939 and by May 1940 Heinkel was discussing the release of these aircraft for export. He argued that they had no value at all for the Luftwaffe as they had been built especially for Japan. A report on Heinkel for the period January-March 1941 states that the purchase by Japan of two He 119Ks was now complete and final payment was due. This normally means that the aircraft has been delivered.

The RDLI export statistics contain 2 He 119 to Japan in 1941.

According to Volker Koos, Heinkel delivered He 119 SV2 and SV4 to Japan, but the problem with this is that these aircraft were part of a batch of prototypes built to RLM orders. The designation He 119K probably indicates that they had been built for export from the outset.

Japanese sources show that two He 119s were imported.

Lennart Andersson

[Dénes Bernád]

I checked my - admittedly incomplete - RLM documents on aircraft exports to Japan from 1942 on.

I found info on Do 217K, Me 109, Me 210, Fw 190, Hs 129 (not delivered), Hs 130 Erpr. Träger, Ar 196, He 177, Fa 330 (deliveries of both of these types unconfirmed), even some Würzburg radars, but no entry for the He 119 (probably the export had been complete by then).

The only trace of He 119s going to Japan is a general statistical table, which lists 2 of these types delivered in 1941 - as noted by the previous posters.

[Tony Jones]

Seaplanes

The 3 large archive boxes are just labelled as Fokkes and Koch files captured in Tokyo. Other captured original files on exports to Japan have been incorporated with the F&K files, such as Messerschmitt, Klem, Fiesler plus a large file which I took to be from the Lawyer involved.
There are many hundreds of pages including Herr Fokkes monthly expenses sheets, plus his death card and original letters on condolence to his wife, plus copies of her replies. I only bothered to copy about 60 pages that were of particular interest to me.
There are also some original orders from Japan included, interestingly all these are written in english, as were some of the German Quotations for equipment.
These files are in the UK

Tony

[pbhawkin]

Hi all,
I have received a reply from Mr Volker Koos and he very kindly translated his information on the He-119.
Here are three paragraphs from what he kindly sent to me:

In the Flugzeug-Entwicklungsprogramm (FEP, i.e. aircraft development program) of the RLM (1.7.1936) for this reason the He 119 V-1 and V-2 are listed as fast bombers. But it is already said, that this Heinkel aircraft would not be ordered in greater numbers. The FEP of 1.10.1936 gives some more details. Here the He 119 V-1 (Wnr. (c/n) 2402), V-2 (2403) and V-4 (2405) are planned as fast bomber prototypes and the V-3 and V-5 (2404 and 2406) are listed as prototypes for the world flight. At that time also a pre-series of seven fast bombers was planned. Already in January 1937 the number of He 119 prototypes was reduced to three, that should be used for engine-trials. The FEP of 1.4.1937 omitted the idea of the world flight. Only the He 119 SV-1, SV-2 and SV-3 (Wnr. 2402, 2403 and 2405) are listed as engine-testbeds. Later the c/ns were fitted to the row, so that the V-3 became the 2404. (SV means Sonder-Versuch, i.e. a V-machine für special tests).

also,

After the first flight in June 1937 and the above mentioned record-flight in November, the He 119 V-1 was again prepared for a record-flight, because the first record was beated on December 10 by an Italian Breda 88. During the second record-flight attempt on December 16, 1937 the He 119 SV-1 (Wnr. 2402, D-AUTE) crashed in Travemünde. The accident was caused by a failure in the tank switching. Nitschke suffered hard injuries, Dieterle only a little bit. (In the literature it is always said and copied again and again, that the record machine D-AUTE was the V-4, but that is total nonsense, because at that time only the V-1 was built and flown.)

and:

The number of the built machines is not exactly known.The RLM gave the export permission after the procurement was rejected. But at Heinkel they tried further to build a bomber on the base of the He 119. The sixth of such projects became the He 119 SV-4. It was planned with the DB 610 (two connected DB 605), a four-bladed airscrew of 4,2 m Diameter, a 3 man-crew (one in a cabin behind the engine) and two 7,9-mm-guns MG 81 and further two 13-mm-guns MG 131 in the cockpit. A further MG 81 was operated by the gunner (third crew-member). The bomb-load of up to 600 kg and another tank of 600 liters ware placed in the fuselage. The planform of the wings was like that of the SV-3 straight not elliptical. The He 119 SV-4 was first flown in May 1940. After seeing the He 119 in Rostock-Marienehe on 1.12.1938 the Japanes Navy ordered two machines. These were delivered in 1941 by ship. Heinkels chief pilot Gerhard Nitschke also travelled to Japan for demonstration of the He 119 and He 100. Both He 119s crashed at landing after short-time testing in Japan. On the base of the He 119 the Japaneses developed the R2Y1 "Keiun" in the flight technical arsenal of the Navy in Yokosuka. Construction leader was Shiro Otsuki.
The two He 119s delivered to Japan were with great probabiliy the SV-2 and SV-4. In Japanese Literature the engine of both machines is said to be the DB 606. So it could have been, that the SV-4 never had the projected DB 610. (But in Japan often the older and often false German literature is copied too.)

So it would seem that 2 He-119s made it to Japan and may well have been V-2 and V-4.

Many thanks to Mr Koos for his time and trouble and to others for their interest in this matter.

regards
Peter H

[Mikael Olrog]

Tony et al.,
Fokkes & Koch represented the following German companies in Japan:
Junkers
Focke-Wulf
Messerschmitt
Fiesler
Klemm
Siebel
Blohm & Voss
Gothaer Waggonfabrik
Argus motoren
Gustav Schwarz
Mechanishe Werkstatten Neubrandenburg
Optische Anstakt C.P. Goertz
Friedrich Krupp

This means that any export or export efforts made for Heinkel, Henschel and other companies would not be covered in the Fokkes & Koch files which could explain the lack of references to He 100 or He 119.

It's quite interesting to note that F&K represented companies approaching the same market segment with competing designs...
/Mike

[pbhawkin]

Mickael,
Very useful and interesting info. SO the question is WHO handled Heinkels exports?