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  #1  
Old 30th May 2009, 14:36
Hans Mcilveen Hans Mcilveen is offline
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Luftzeuggruppen records

See this link: RL 24 Luftzeuggruppen. Possibly these files contain interesting details on e.g. Werknummer or Stammkennzeichen. Did anyone ever take a look at them?
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Old 30th May 2009, 14:57
Larry deZeng Larry deZeng is offline
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Re: Luftzeuggruppen records

I know someone who collects Kennzeichen and Werknummern and has sampled RL 24, but not systematically explored its entirety. It was some years ago, but my understanding is that he believed there is enough there to warrant a full investigation of its contents. He did not pursue the matter further because he lives on the left side of the Pond and the sheer expensive of going to Freiburg for 3 or 4 months, or attempting to buy microfilm of the entire collection, was just too much for him to contemplate. As can be seen from your link, RL 24 is quite large. I have a personal interest in the collection myself, albeit for other purposes, but my research days are over.
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Old 30th May 2009, 20:10
edNorth edNorth is offline
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Re: Luftzeuggruppen records

Do I understand correctly that ´204 AE´ means 204 Volumes?
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Old 30th May 2009, 20:38
Larry deZeng Larry deZeng is offline
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Re: Luftzeuggruppen records

Probably means Akten Exemplar (literally, file specimens; practically, files).
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Old 30th May 2009, 22:42
edNorth edNorth is offline
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Re: Luftzeuggruppen records

I belived too these were indeed the number of files (Volumes);

Luftzeuggruppe 1/Luftzeugstab Ostland: Aug 39 - mid Feb 42 (16 AE)
Nachschubbereich 1, Pleskau: Aug - Dec 41 (2 AE)
Luftzeuggruppe 3, Berlin: Aug 39 - Sep 41, Jun 42 - May 43 (9 AE)
Luftzeuggruppe 4, Dresden: mid Apr 42 - early Aug 43 (2 AE)
Luftzeuggruppe 6, Münster: Des 39 - Jan 41, Nov-Dec 41 and Sep 42 - Dec 43 (16 AE)
Nachschubbezirk Köln: Apr 41 - Mar 43 (1 AE)
Nachschubbezirk Bonn: Feb 40 - Apr 41 (2 AE)
Luftzeuggruppe 7, München, Markt Schwaben: Aug 43 - Feb 44 (3 AE)
Luftzeuggruppe 11, Hamburg: May 42 - May 1943 (1 AE)
Luftzeuggruppe 12/13, Wiesbaden: Nov - Dec 39, Aug 1940 und Jan 42-Dec 43 (8 AE)
Nachschubbezirk 3, Koblenz: Mar 41 - Nov 42 (1 AE)
Luftzeuggruppe 17, Wien: end Dec 1943 - Feb 44 (1 AE)
Luftzeuggruppe See, Kiel: Aug-Nov 39 and Jun 40 - Apr 45 (7 AE)
Luftzeuggruppe Norwegen, Oslo: Apr 40 - late Nov 41 (5 AE)
Luftzeuggruppe Holland, Amsterdam, from Dec 41
Luftzeuggruppe Kiew: May-Jun 40 und Okt 40-Feb 1943 (2 AE)
Luftzeuggruppe Belgien/Nordfrankreich, Brüssel: Jun-Nov 40, Jan 42-Jun 44 (42 AE)
Nachschubbezirk III B - Brüssel/Gent: Jan-Jul 42 (1 AE)
Luftzeuggruppe Westfrankreich - Dreux: May 40 - Feb 44 (29 AE)
Luftzeuggruppe Westfrankreich bei Fliegerführer Rhone: Nov 42 (4 AE)
Luftzeuggruppe Westfrankreich bei Fliegerführer Garonne: Nov-Dec 42 (2 AE)
Nachschubbezirk I - Dreux: end Jun 40 - Dec 41 (3 AE)
Nachschubbezirk 3: Dec 40 - Jun 42 (2 AE)
Nachschubbezirk, Orléans: Dec 40 - Feb 44 (3 AE)
Nachschubbezirk, Rennes: Jun 42 - Feb 44 (1 AE)
Nachschubbezirk, Remoulins: Dec 42 - Feb 44 (1 AE)
Luftzeuggruppe Italien, Neapel: Jan 42 - Sep 43 (4 AE)
Luftzeuggruppe 25, Rostow: end Jun - mid Dec 42 und Mar-Jun 43 (6 AE)
Stab der Versorgungsgruppe, Stalino: Jul xx - Okt 42 (2 AE)
Außenstelle Kiew: end Feb-Jun 43 (1 AE)
Nachschubbezirk 4/VIII - Nikolajew, Dnjepropetowsk: Aug 41 - Nov 42 (2 AE)
Nachschubbezirk 11/VIII - Kropotkin, Armawir: end Aug - Nov 42 (2 AE)
Luftzeuggruppe Kiew/Charkow: Dec 42 - mid May 43 (2 AE)
Nachschubbezirk 5/VIII - Kursk: Apr - mid Nov 42 (1 AE)
Luftzeuggruppe Moskau/Minsk: May-Jul 41 und Dec 42 - Okt 43 (3 AE)
Nachschubbezirk 1/II - Brjansk: Mar-Okt 43 (2 AE)
Nachschubbezirk 6/II - Roslawl, Orel: Dec 41 - Sep 42 (1 AE)
Luftzeuggruppe Finnland - Rovaniemi: Jul 42 - Jan 44 (1 AE)

Perhaps someone may post samples (on layout and contents)?
I´am most interested in period 1939/1940, and 1944/1945.
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Old 31st May 2009, 03:47
Horst Weber Horst Weber is offline
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Re: Luftzeuggruppen records

It seems, that a Luftzeugruppe is generally named as their responsible Luftgau.
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  #7  
Old 31st May 2009, 14:00
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Re: Luftzeuggruppen records

I checked some of the files in Freiburg, especially from Feldlzgr.
Belg./Westfrankreich.
Some files contains hundreds of flightorders of Ju 52 with SKZ.
Others has informations of WNr. of repaired a/c.
Some others no usefull informations.
Maybe the other files, I did not checked yet, has more to offer.
I will see, if I can find more.

Dirk
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Old 31st May 2009, 14:34
Hans Mcilveen Hans Mcilveen is offline
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Re: Luftzeuggruppen records

Thank you all for your input, it certainly gave me an understanding of its contents. The volume of these records is described as 204 AE (Akteneinheiten in German archive jargon) and elsewhere - one level up on the BAMA site - as 5 lfm (running metre). I guess this translates to several tens of thousands of pages at least. Indeed large enough to expect individual aircraft data. My particular interest is in the records of Luftzeuggruppe See Kiel which - remarkably - run from August to November 1939 and June 1940 to April 1945. The BAMA description further states that the records were among those that were returned from the US and UK to Germany. Perhaps microfilmed copies still exist in the NARA as well.
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Old 31st May 2009, 16:37
Larry deZeng Larry deZeng is offline
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Re: Luftzeuggruppen records

Hans -

There are no documents or microfilmed documents of the Luftzeuggruppen in NARA WashDC. These fell into the category of "administrative and logistical records" that were retained by the British once they got to the Captured Documents Library on Monck Street in London during 1945-46. They were turned over the Air Ministry's Air Historical Branch in 1948 where they were retained until they were returned to Germany during the 1960's and 1970's. None of them is known to have been microfilmed by AHB before they were return.

Larry
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