Major Hermann Graf's All Yellow FW 190A-6 ?

[Howard Shenton]

Just joined the forum. My interests are all germam WW2 wepons and aircraft of WW1. Currently have a large number of plastic kits, mostly German. and fly controline model aircraft. Have a Wing Mfg. short kit of a FW190 which i plan to build.

At a plastic scale model contest a few years ago i saw a FW190 painted in all yellow.
Very striking looking but was it accurate?
The mag. article included with the model stated:

Mag: American Aircraft Modeler,Feb 68, page 30
Author: John N. Townsley
Text: Major Hermann Graf FW 190 A-6 leading Geschwader-Richthofen (JG-2 ?) operating in France. Painted in Bright Yellow - Polished and gleaming as a jewel.
Do not have picture and mag. did not have color shots.
Side Markings were <<| + Tail marking was from the Monagram 190 kit Wreath with Knights cross and yellow kill#

No other details as to where the color schem info came from. Has anyone heard of this before? I like the different color variations used by the Luftwaffe especially the desert colors. I have a number of books and articals but none of them referance this color.

Any information available would be appreciated

Howard Shenton

[Rabe Anton]

Very sure that your Hermann Graf all-yellow Fw 190A-6 is complete fiction.

During the summer of 1943 Graf was commander of one of the Erganzungjagdgruppen (a kind of OTU, or operational training unit) in France. His aircraft at that time was a colorfully decorated (but hardly all-yellow) Fw 190A-5, WNr. 2594. A number of photographs of this airplane exist in various publications.

When the Fw 190A-6 hit the newstands in 1943, it represented the cutting edge of Fw 190 evolution and thus mostly went straight where it was needed most, e.g., to first-line RVT units in the West and a few units in the East. Sit down and THINK quietly about the possibilities. Why on God's green earth would a fighter pilot—any fighter pilot, Graf or otherwise—want to draw attention to himself with an all-yellow airplane in the murderous air combat arena of the West during 1943-1944?

RA

[Andy Mac]

Hi Howard - let me dig out my other bits and pieces and tell you the full story later this evening. I had a right old time investigating this 190 and Major`Graf. The story reached an interesting conclusion recently for me!

Bloody nightmare in some respects . . .

Andy.

[Howard Shenton]

Rabe

I agree with you. It would not be the best thing to be more of a Target in that environment.
But if true then it would be an interesting color for my flying model.
And thank you for your answer.

Andy
Look foreord to your information and conclusions.

Howard

[Dick Powers]

If I recall correctly, the original FW 190 "Profile", circa 1965 included a color profile of an all-yellow 190 which may have been attributed to Graf. Perhaps this latest sighting is a resurfacing of the old profile publication.

[Christer Bergström]

First of all, Hermann Graf never commanded JG 2.

Secondly, none of the Fw 190s which he flew was all yellow.

Thirdly, Graf didn't fly any missions in the area where that all-yellow Fw 190 is said to have been seen.

Fourth, Graf was not shot down on the date - or even a date close to that date - when the all-yellow Fw 190 should have been shot down.

The whole story about Major von Graff/Graf commanding JG 2 "Richthofen" and flying an all-yellow Fw 190 originates from Pierre Clostermann's "The Big Show". In my book "Graf & Grislawski" (published in August 2003) I examined that closely.

See:

http://www.graf-grislawski.elknet.pl/index.htm

In the latest edition of "The Big Show" (published in 2004, with the foreword written in September 2003), Pierre Clostermann made this new addition regarding the pilot of the all-yellow Fw 190:

"Later we learned that it was not Graff, but maybe Oesau". (p. 50.)

If you want to build good and accurate models of any of Graf's Fw 190s, Claes Sundin has made great colour profiles of 26 different aircraft flown by Graf & Grislawski in the book with the same title, and Eagle Editions has printed decals to all of them. For a link to the decals, see the link above.

[Andy Mac]

Howard - follow this link to my question about the yellow 190 last November. Christer is absolutely right, it was his book that finally cleared the mystery for me.

http://disc.server.com/discussion.cg...1;pagemark=390

The above link is from the old forum - welcome to this one by the way !

Basically I have come across many sites showing the yellow 190, plastic and r/c. I've also seen a dodgy colour profile in an old book that I binned when I realised it was tosh. Major Graf's fw 190 was however very colourful - I wonder if the largely yellow and red nose has been mistaken for the aircraft being generally 'yellow'.

BUT - who knows for sure?! I'm going to look for some pics to post for you and well I might just build one for the hell of it.

Cheerio,

Andy.

ps. there are some great characters on this forum, respected authors mostly, but also some really great blokes and one or two girlies who love to share their knowledge and help with research.

Later!

[Kutscha]

Howard,

be careful with what the Frenchman Closterman says. I won't outright call him a liar but he can spin some very good tales.

[Christer Bergström]

I won't outright call him a liar but he can spin some very good tales.

That's a quite strong accusation. Why not instead say that he - as anyone who writes his memoirs - writes according to the information he has access to. If you read Clostermann's book you'll find that he wrote: "we heard on the radio" that a Major von Graff had been wounded. Maybe British propaganda did some spinning? Or maybe there was a slight misinterpretation - as Clostermann actually admits in his latest edition: "Later we learned it was not von Graff".

It wasn't either Clostermann who told profile artists to do dreamed-up profiles of a yellow Fw 190. . .

If you select any biography and put it under a magnifying glass the way you have done with Clostermann's biography, you could find other similar mistakes. I happen to be a great fan of Jimi Hendrix, and I have found some statements in Curtis Knight's biography on Hendrix which are erroneous. Does that give me the right to accuse Jimi Hendrix's old friend Curtis Knight of outright spinning? Wouldn't it rather be a case of some slight failures in the memory?

In his memoirs, Clostermann shows an honest respect for his enemy - unlike the case in many other pilot biographies. Maybe this is a reason why some unreasonable people like to pick on him? Maybe the fact that he didn't console himself to the usual "black-and-white" picture of the "Stoopid Nazi Pilots" made him viable target to some flag waving narrow-minded people?

Clostermann told us his memories as a fighter pilot, and we should be grateful that he did that. I still find it a great read, just like I like e.g. Rudel's memoirs, Pokryshkin's memoirs, and even Steinhoff's two books. If anyone tells me that not every little detail in those books is 100% checked and cross-checked with all kind of sources from all sides, I will agree. But how much can we demand from one man who only wanted to share his memories with us? Of course, as soon as a veteran opens his mouth, the crows will flock and call him "spinner" and "fairy-tale-teller". I've seen it before. No wonder some of the old men prefer to keep their memories to themselves. Thank you very much for that!

Okay, Ruy, I suppose you'll lock this thread now. It's only me tired of the uncontested sniping at non-present old pilot veterans which I've seen before on this board.

Perhaps I can explain the mystery of the "yellow" 190. Just a theory :Clostermann reports a certain fight in detail - the fight at the end of which capitaine "Martell" (a nom de guerre) alias Pierre Montet shot down the "all-yellow" 190. I had a tendency to believe Clostermann about the colour for during this final duel he was just an onlooker, he didn't take part in it and it was relatively long, so I figured he had plenty of time to LOOK at the 190. But recently Christer has told us (in his Graf-Grislawski book) that there never was such a yellow bird and I believe him.
What now? Could it be that the sun was setting already and its warm light made the 190 appear yellow for Closter's eyes? Such things are possible, with red too. I made a film myself : the 9 "Alpha Jets" of the "Patrouille de France" flying along a deep valley in the Alps - in the late afternoon, far below. A wonderful sight. The jets turned to the left following the valley... and they were entirely red. A nice, warm, red colour! Surely I am not the only one having seen such a thing. Sometimes you even can see something of the kind in TV commercials : an airliner in the setting sun...
What do the experts think?
Pierre Montet alias "Christian Martell" shot down 6 Fw 190s from 14 May 1943 through 24 Sept. 43, 6 confirmed, unshared victories on 190s in 4 months and 10 days. Not bad considering the opposition.
I entirely share Christer's views on biographies. I know I believed certain things on MY OWN LIFE which were wrong, as I discovered later. I didn't lie, I just was wrong. For example I would have sworn that I was on a certain airfield and did a certain thing but in fact it was another airfield (as my logbook proves). My memory betrayed me. Such things will happen.
One thing can't be disputed : Clostermann sailed to England (he could have stayed safely in the USA as an aeronautics engineer and made aircraft there, and enjoyed private flying (he had some 250 hours already) and California girls. Instead he joined the Free-French in bombed-out England and its terrible English food, even worse during the war! The chances to come back alive were very slim. After some training, formalities and red tape (British and French) he joined the Free-French squadron Alsace in January 1943. From this day on he flew combat operations, almost without any pause, until the end of the war 2 years and 4 months later. Everybody knows that he fought a lot, "which nobody can deny, for he's a jolly good fellow..." : on Spitfires, later on Tempests, ending an acting Wing Commander (Flying). He won a DFC and bar at the rate of his aerial victories, plus a DSO. Not to forget the less glamourous but very dangerous attacks on German trains, columns, airfields etc. While you're duelling with the 20 mm quadruple and 37 mm Flaks of a train you can't shoot down any aircraft at the same time and win even more glory and honours. Once he led his 8 Tempests into an airfield attack. 30 seconds later only 2 Tempests were left including himself. Would YOU accept such odds? I doubt I would (I'd say : "Fighting is OK but I need to have a chance").
I feel he knows his stuff and he knew what he was talking about when he wrote his first book. Who knows - some day maybe some great historian will discover that there actually WAS an all-yellow 190, at least for a few days... No offence Christer, hey?
About Closter's first book "Le grand cirque" I have to add that his writing - in French - makes a deep impression on me every time I read a few pages again. His style is incredible, magnificent, formidable; this really is writing, often poetry. A great, great book! I never read it in another language and I doubt that the author's great style was "translated" too. It's hardly possible anyway, and translations are almost invariably very poor, even very wrong (see what I wrote about Galland's book in English : terrible). Well, I'll have to purchase a copy in English.
At some place in this book he reported how he was sent back from Normandy to England aboard a LCT or something. This passage is so terrific in French that I read it aloud on several occasions for friends who are not air-minded and not at all interested in war. They were impressed too. How about the English version? Is it so impressive too, with the reek of diesel fuel and sea water, the red glow of a fire on the horizon and the boat's propellers who "beat the tempo of my heart, heavy with memories, ...? and sorrow"? This is the most beautiful sentence I ever read and the rest of the book is not bad either in this respect.