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  #1  
Old 21st June 2010, 02:00
FPSOlkor FPSOlkor is offline
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2 JoeB about KW

Could you please clear a couple of points for me:
1/
Quote:
"... MiG-15 that had a huge Dragon painted down the side of it. It was shot down on May 18, 1953 over North Korea. The other MiGs tried to protect it, but one of the F-86's broke through and shot it down. The pilot of the Sabre is very interested in trying to find out who was flying the MiG and if he survived..."
According to available to me data on 18 may 1953 518 IAP lost two planes and 1 pilot, against 2 claims. US claimed to shoot down 7 Migs by 51 FW and 4 by 4 FW. Non of the KW vets to whom i have talked recalled any painted MiGs. Is it possible that there was an engagement with Chinese or Korean AF MiGs? Any data about Dragon-painted MiG?

2/
Could you provide me with information about:
RB-29 №44-61810 was shot down on 13.06.1952 in USSR territoreal waters by Proskurin and Fedorov from 7th IAD TOF and RB-29 №44-61815 Shot down over Kurile islands by La-11 from 368 IAP - Zheryakov and Lesnov on 7 october 1952.
I wasn't able to find them in Korwald, sorry if missed them.
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Old 21st June 2010, 08:16
Frank Olynyk Frank Olynyk is online now
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Re: 2 JoeB about KW

Neither are in Korwald because both are Cold War losses, not Korean War losses. If you Google on the aircraft serial numbers, and wade through a small amount of garbage, you will find some websites which discuss their loss. Crew names, etc.

Frank.
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Old 21st June 2010, 11:36
FPSOlkor FPSOlkor is offline
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Re: 2 JoeB about KW

Both B-29s were from 31\91 SRS, actively participating in combat against Soviet pilots in that same ToO. What's the reason to exclude them from KW losses?
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Old 21st June 2010, 18:51
JoeB JoeB is offline
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Re: 2 JoeB about KW

I've never seen any photo or account of MiG-15 in Korea with large artwork, that's a very interesting account. Some propaganda photo's of PLAAF MiG-15's in Korea sport relatively large red Chinese lettering near the nose, which just says 'Chinese Peoples Volunteer Army Air Force'. It might have mistaken for artwork, but wasn't a dragon all the way down the fuselage, and I've never seen any US reference to that lettering either. It might or might not have appeared on a/c in actual combat.

By May 1953 PLAAF and KPAAF MiG units combined readily outnumbered the Soviets, in potential order of battle at least, though perhaps less so in actual rate of sorties. Per Zhang in "Red Wings over the Yalu" the Chinese 4th, 6th, 14th, 15th, 16th and 17th Fighter Divisions were involved in Korean operations in that period. Per the North Korean defector No Kum-sok, so was his 1st Fighter Division KPAAF, and at least one other NK MiG-15 division.

I don't know however, any specific account of combats May 18, 1953 by the Chinese or NK's.

As for RB-29 'Cold War' shootdowns, dividing these from 'Korean War' losses mirrors the way the Soviets and US both viewed it at the time, as well as how they cooperated (or are still cooperating to some much more limited extent) in joint research about POW/MIA's of the period, from 1990's. The fighter units responsible for the shootdowns were not part of 64th Fighter Corps in Korea so joint research in that units' records wouldn't explain them. By the same token, such incidents were typically not mentioned in intelligence summaries of 5th AF or Far East Air Force about Korean operations, since they didn't happen over Korea; although the unit involved did operate and suffer losses of other a/c over Korea.

Btw, the link I have for Korwald is dead, does anyone have a new one? DPMO itself had a separate page about Cold War air incidents, but link I had is likewise dead.

Joe
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Old 21st June 2010, 19:50
Frank Olynyk Frank Olynyk is online now
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Re: 2 JoeB about KW

JoeB,
When I Googled on KORWALD it pointed me at DTIC, but when I went there I got the "Page not found" error. Google's cached copy is dated May 31, 2010. I know KORWALD used to be on the DPMO website, so maybe it is being moved to DTIC, and they don't have it up yet; or have restricted access to the pages. I will have to check my computer at home, because I used to pull the entire KORWALD website down regularly. Up until they stopped putting a date on the files. I did it a few months ago (half a year?).

In any case, what I have always wanted to locate are the references at NARA II that Ken Maynard used to build the database. Do you have any of the NARA II links, especially for 1953? I can't find the FEAF/5th AF DIS for 1953. Or contact with Ken, after he retired a number of years ago?

Enjoy!

Frank.
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Old 21st June 2010, 20:01
FPSOlkor FPSOlkor is offline
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Re: 2 JoeB about KW

according to what i found additionally about Dragon MiG it was credited to Jim Tompson from 51stFW. He even got an artwork to commemorate this event
http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxve_Z0
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Old 21st June 2010, 23:08
Frank Olynyk Frank Olynyk is online now
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Re: 2 JoeB about KW

FPSOlkor,

It is not the MiG-15 that has the dragon painted on it, it's Jim Tompson's F-86 (I am not sure that name is spelled right). Color photos of The Huff have been published in several books.

Frank.
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Old 22nd June 2010, 00:30
FPSOlkor FPSOlkor is offline
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Re: 2 JoeB about KW

Quote:
Originally Posted by FPSOlkor View Post
He even got an artwork to commemorate this event
http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxve_Z0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Olynyk View Post
FPSOlkor,

It is not the MiG-15 that has the dragon painted on it, it's Jim Tompson's F-86 (I am not sure that name is spelled right). Color photos of The Huff have been published in several books.

Frank.
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Old 22nd June 2010, 04:15
JoeB JoeB is offline
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Re: 2 JoeB about KW

Now that I see the commemorative dragon so relatively near the nose, I wonder more: could lettering like this possibly be mistaken for an art work image, perhaps even a dragon, in the heat of combat?

http://www.airforceworld.com/pla/gfx/mig15/mig15_1.jpg

Joe
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  #10  
Old 23rd June 2010, 03:58
FPSOlkor FPSOlkor is offline
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Re: 2 JoeB about KW

To be honest, i doubt it. To be mistaken this lettering has to be in green colour at first place, which is not likely - simply for better view irritating colors were used, at least in VVS... But - haven't been there, haven't seen it. And 11 claims by USAF against 2 losses is very serious overclaim level
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