Experte Bf-109 ID Please? -Horst Carganico (60)? &

[fran]

Yes, victories in Spain were on behalf of another airforce of another country, so can not be shown in the own nation abschussbalken.
Regards

Originally Posted by Hohentwiel

Dear all,

please remember that claims of the LC were not listed
with victory bars on tails!

With the best wishes,
Sven.

[Jim P.]

"Neither Hackl, Menge nor Struckmann were in Spain with the Tophatters of 2./J88, so falling from listing...Furthermore, according to Osprey Aircraft of the Aces-Bf109D/E aces 1939-41 book, Robert Menge claimed four Blenheims IV's during the disastrous Aalborg raid on 13 Aug. aboard the 'Black 1' "

While the tophat is indeed associated with Spanish service, I think, in this case, 5./JG 77 also used it as a Staffelbadge.

[robert]

Yes this is staffelbadge.
It started to disappear in August 1940 - perhaps it was connected with changing of Staffelkapitaen.

Robert

[odybvig]

Probably not Menge. His 4. and 5. victory was on the same day
Ofw Anton Hackl is more likely, his 4. was on 17.6.1940

Best
Olve Dybvig

[Rob Romero]

So based on the following:

-WWII vics (not Spanish Civ War)
-4 not 2 or 5 vic bars painted
-2/J88 emblem is 5/JG77 emblem and not personal emblem.

I’m back to Hackl right?

P.S. Edgar Struckmann’s 5 JG77 victories are not listed http://www.luftwaffe.no/SIG/1940/JG77/kills.html so is his inclusion here an error?

Thanx,

Rob

[fran]

I think IMHO the Top Hat it's not a Staffelbadge but a personal one and it's located where these are usually painted, in the cockpit area.
Furthermore, If it were the 5./JG77 Staffelbadge why Menge did not painted it in his Me109?? (see the attached picture)
In my oppinion, the pilot must be a veteran of 2./J88 in Spain and from the area of Hamburg because the motto: 'Hümmel-Hümmel'. Features that does not meet Hackl born in Regensburg.

Regards

[robert]

Hi,


so why the black hat emblem was carried by black: 2,3,4,5,8 etc.?
Your profil shows Bf109 from late August 1940 when this staffel emblem started to disappear from the planes ( could be connected with change of Staka - Loijewski/Jung) and the fuselages were heavly mottled.
Now victories:
- 5/JG77 Fw.Robert Menge #4 24.04.40 07.40 Hudson 220 RAF N7285
- 5/JG77 Lt.Edgar Struckmann #4 24.04.40 07.40 Hudson 220 RAF N7286

Source: J.Prien "JFV Teil.3" page 22

Regards

Robert

[Rob Romero]

According to http://www.luftwaffe.no/SIG/1940/JG77/kills.html only 3 pilots (Menge, Hackl & Petermann) are viable candidates.
-However Menge scored his 4 & 5th on the same day.
-Petermann scored his 4th, 5th & 6th victories on the same day.
-Hackl scored his 4th on 17 Jun 40.
-Vic Bars are for WWII vics (not Spanish Civ War)
-Bf 109E photo is of ‘Black 4’ –not Menge’s ‘Black 1’
-2/J88 emblem is 5/JG77 emblem and not personal emblem (Menge being an exception by late Aug 40?).

So I’m back to Hackl right?

P.S. Edgar Struckmann’s 5 JG77 victories are not listed with II/JG77s http://www.luftwaffe.no/SIG/1940/JG77/kills.html so is his candidacy an error?

Thanx,

Rob