Loss of 1./JG 77 on 18 September 1941

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Hello,

According to http://www.rafandluftwaffe.info/wp-c...gjagd-JG77.pdf, on 18 September 1941 1./JG 77 lost Fw. Wilhelm Schneider killed and the Bf 109 E Wnr 6272 destroyed at 90% in an accident, probably in lake Kotozero area.

But this loss is not listed in http://www.luftwaffe.no/SIG/Losses/tap412.html.

According to the summary of the Luftwaffe losses set online by Andreas Brekken and his team, 1./JG 77 lost this day one aicraft "destroyed without enemy action on non-operational flight", that seems to confirm the first source. But this database says that the loss was reported on 29 August 1942, almost one year later, and I find it rather strange.

So maybe, the date is the date of the last update of the loss, and the Luftwaffe loss list this day may contain some new data.

If anyone can confirm it I will be interested.

Also, I don't have the Prien book covering I./JG 77 in the North in 1941, if someone can confirm that Prien listed this loss I will be interested.

Thanks in advance

[Stig Jarlevik]

Laurent

Neither Prien nor Mombeek list this incident in their relevant books.
I have however located it in a rather obscure/unknown book (unless you read Finnish) by Hannu Valtonen called Luftwaffen Pohjoinen Sivusta published in 1997.
Since 'our' Matti Salonen is a contributor I have a suspicion that the loss list at the end is from his files.

The text (translation thanks to my wife)
18.9.1941 Bf 109E WNr 6272 1./JG 77 crashed into Lake Kotozero (Kotozerolla in Finnish), Fw Wilhelm Schneider killed, aircraft damaged 90%.

Perhaps Matti would care to comment on this?

Cheers
Stig

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Thanks Stig to you and your wife.

Yes, I hope Matti will comment this thread.

[Norbert Schuchbauer]

Hi,
it is indeed correct that this loss was not reported until 29-Aug-42 as item 84. It is also listed under Luftflotte 4 (Einsatz-Osten) and there is an annotation that is was based on Vordruck II which means the Namentliche Verlustmeldung. The location is spelled "Kosero". Unfortunately I do not have the NVM.

Regards,
Norbert

[Norbert Schuchbauer]

Attached the copy of the details.

Norbert

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Norbert

Seems Matti is on holidays or something, since we don't get any reply from him. However you are just as welcome of course,

I cannot open your attachment, my computer says the file is damaged and can't be repaired. Can you resend it?

Seems I am just as curious as Laurent....

Cheers
Stig

[Norbert Schuchbauer]

Hi Stig,
must be your browser. It downloads just fine with mine. I'm not the best technical expert when it comes to those matters either. Maybe someone else can give a helping hand.

Norbert

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Hello

Thanks Norbert for this confirmation. I wonder what is in the NVM, and I hope Matti will eventually reply.

Stig, I have no problem opening the file provided by Norbert (using Firefox).

[Andreas Brekken]

Hello,

having worked with the loss lists for years I do not find this strange at all. There are a multitude of loss records filed months or even years after the incident.

Clerical error or oversight - whatever reason.

Attached is a scan of the loss record as it appear in the standard GenQu listing of August 29 1942.

Regards,
Andreas B

[Andreas Brekken]

PS!

The reason for it being filed under Luftflotte 4 is as far as I can see that the unit was subordinated to this air fleet at the time of reporting.

Regards,
Andreas B