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Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
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#21
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Re: Question about Fw. Walter (Paul) Bracke (Brake) 8./JG51
The VDK have him listed as Helmut BRUNKE; without umlaut, born 12.09.1919 Eutin, lost 13.03.1943, Südt Orel.
Joe |
#22
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Re: Question about Fw. Walter (Paul) Bracke (Brake) 8./JG51
Hi Guys
I checked the micro films again. I still believe claims for 24th were Brunke, however it was there was no umlaut. Another thing is that at this exact time Brunke goes from being a Uffz to Fw......just to confuse matters. Regards Johannes |
#23
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Re: Question about Fw. Walter (Paul) Bracke (Brake) 8./JG51
Thanks Joe and thanks Johannes
Let's drop the umlaut then. Cheers Stig |
#24
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Re: Question about Fw. Walter (Paul) Bracke (Brake) 8./JG51
Hi Guys
Checked through the JG51 book which states that Bracke had two claims with JG51 and Brunke nine.....which is more than a little incorrect. However it does state that Brunke was an Uffz at death and not Fw.....this would make the last three of Brunke's claims(by Foreman/Mathews) Bracke's i.e:- 24th February 1943 Il-2 x 2 0635 hrs and 0637 hrs and 12th March 1943 Pe-2 0935 hrs ! Whereas I myself believe them to be Brunke and similarity in names is so close, can't be 100% sure. I do have the 1943 micro films losses, but they are quite chaotic, but I will try to find Brunke's rank at death! Regards Johannes |
#25
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Re: Question about Fw. Walter (Paul) Bracke (Brake) 8./JG51
NVM gives Brunke's rank Uffz on 13 March 1943.
Matti |
#26
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Re: Question about Fw. Walter (Paul) Bracke (Brake) 8./JG51
Thanks Johannes and Matti
My apologies Johannes if I have forced you to focus on something not on your agenda at the present. Very interesting never-the-less Thanks again Stig |
#27
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Re: Question about Fw. Walter (Paul) Bracke (Brake) 8./JG51
Hi Guys
Looked at the problem with the similar names again because of the discrepancy with ranks. In my opinion the guy who claimed on the 23rd February was the same guys who claimed on the 24th February it's Bracke. Bruhnke is spelt with an umlaut though on the micro films it's written as "u' " not as ü. But Brünke did make the last claim as an Unteroffizier on 12th March 1943. Thanks for the questioning. I will update books in any subsequent editions. Kind Regards Johannes |
#28
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Re: Question about Fw. Walter (Paul) Bracke (Brake) 8./JG51
Thanks Johannes
Very nice of you to make this commitment! However I am not 100% sure I follow you, and don't want something to become wrong again. If we concentrate on the two crucial days, 23rd and 24th Feb 1943, we have the following previous scenario (I quote both you and Prien) Mathews/Foreman 23.2 Uffz Brünke Il-2 07.50H 23.2 Uffz Brünke Pe-2 10.25H 23.2 Fw Bracke Il-2 10.15H 23.2 Fw Bracke Il-2 10.20H 24.2 Uffz Brünke Il-2 06.35H 24.2 Uffz Brünke Il-2 06.37H Prien 23.2 Uffz Brünke Il-2 07.50H 23.2 Uffz Brünke Pe-2 10.25H 23.2 Fw Bracke Il-2 10.15H 23.2 Fw Bracke Il-2 10.20H 24.2 Fw Bracke Il-2 06.35H 24.2 Fw Bracke Il-2 06.37H Am I correct that you now also want to change one of the victories on the 23rd to Fw Bracke? This may not be your intentions and I am simply not understanding you well enough. But for the sake of completeness, I then assume you want to change the Pe-2 from Brünke to Bracke? If yes we would then have a final scenario as follows 23.2 Uffz Brünke Il-2 07.50H 23.2 Fw Bracke Pe-2 10.25H 23.2 Fw Bracke Il-2 10.15H 23.2 Fw Bracke Il-2 10.20H 24.2 Fw Bracke Il-2 06.35H 24.2 Fw Bracke Il-2 06.37H Is that correct or not? With regard to the score on 12.3 both you and Prien have the same man Fw Helmut Brünke. However there then is a problem with rank. I know you now say the score on the 12th was by UFFZ Brünke, so can you confirm the list/document really states that rank and not Fw, since then I would say there is a slight problem remaining.... I also find it interesting with how the umlaut was written. To me it is an indication the typewriter used was not of German origin.... B Rgds Stig |
#29
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Re: Question about Fw. Walter (Paul) Bracke (Brake) 8./JG51
Hi Stig
Yes, those previously attributed(wrongly) by myself to Brühnke on 24th February 1943 should read Bracke, thus increasing his score to fourteen confirmed in the East. Basically I am agreeing with Prien/Boch. Obviously Brünke's score decreases by two. If you find any other differences between Prien/Boch and myself please don't be shy. I'll check through them. I found the most unreadable timeline for the daily micro films is April 1943 in the East, but last year had my films professionally cleaned up, if you wanted a copy drop me a private message. Kind Regards Johannes |
#30
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Re: Question about Fw. Walter (Paul) Bracke (Brake) 8./JG51
Thanks Johannes
That settles it! Book corrected. Also I appreciate you took the time to dig into the problem the way you did. VERY professional and a good tribute to yourself! Certainly an attitude to be promoted and appreciated by all of us. Thanks again Cheers Stig |
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