Losses of german nightfighters - night 19/20 February 1943

[Faenor]

Hi,

I'm looking for an overview of losses of German night-fighters for the night 19/20 February 1943.

The rear gunner Sgt. Wilcock from 466.Sq reported in in this night destruction of Me 110 (in flame hit the sea) - see link.

http://www.halifaxlv827.co.uk/he531.htm
http://www.lostbombers.co.uk/bomber.php?id=4829

466 sq. machine (Wellington B Mk.X HE531) was damaged in battle and then crashed on landing.

I would be grateful for any losses of german nightfighters for the night, if it is traceable

Faenor

[Stig Jarlevik]

Faenor

As per Khorat's two books, there were no German losses this night.
Neither did any German fighter claim specifically your Wellington.

What the crew unfortunately saw was one of their own bombers fall into the sea. I think this was a quite common occurance during the night war....

B Rgds
Stig

[Faenor]

Hi Stig,

crew reported two attacks by German fighter jet - look at the link (page 12)
http://www.awm.gov.au/catalogue/rese...9125z015_1.pdf

It is possible to compare this fight with reports of German night fighters, if not one of the kills - I´m interesting, if any of the night fighters attacked three times same bomber? Then, I saw enough imagination in same area to double attack machine HE531 and then shot down another machine, the crew saw machine HE531 and reported the victory.

Faenor

[Stig Jarlevik]

Faenor

Don't know how accurate the German reports are and if it is possible to link any possible claim to HE531.
Suffice to say that all claims made that night has been tied in with known RAF losses by Theo Boiten in his Vol 1 of Nachtjagd War Diaries.

As far as I am concerned, one of the Luftwaffe pilots that night may have claimed HE531 but actually received credit for another found wreck. It is always difficult to tie in claims vs losses, but at this stage I am perfectly happy with Dr Boiten's theories.

B Rgds
Stig

[Faenor]

Hi,

I fully understand and agree, that Theo Boiten's books are excellent.

In this case - Theo Boiten can be contacted via e-mail? In the case of fetch the contact I'd be very grateful.

Faenor

[Marcel Hogenhuis]

Hello

I am sorry to disappoint you Stig but according to my Bf110 database there was actually a loss:

Bf110 C-4 (Wnr. 2158) of 5./NJG 3, unit code D5+?N, production code KD+UB, crashed in PQ. 8555 (the Northsea west of St.Peter/Germany) after an aerial fight.
Pilot Fw. Otto Hagn (born 6.2.1920) and wireless operator Uffz. Walter Prinzel (26.6.1920) were missing, most likely killed.

[sources: IWM, Reel 8 Luftwaffe losses and WASt Berlin, Namentliche Verlustmeldung, signed by Hptm. Hans Bär, temporarily Gruppenkommandeur of II./NJG 3]

It matches quite well with the description given in the first posting.
All the best,

Marcel Hogenhuis
Study Group Venlo Airfield in WW-2

[Khorat]

You find the loss also in "Deutsche Nachtjagd Personalverluste in Ausbildung und Einsatz" the date is given with 18./19.2.1943 - sorry that happend several times in this first part.
Maybe the loss of Do 217 J-2 1258 at Georgsheil - 10 km west of Aurich, also happend in the night 19./20.2.1043 - sorry the copy´s of the NVM´s are in germany right now.

khorat - Michael Balss

[Marcel Hogenhuis]

Hello all,

The NVM says about the Do217 crew that they all have killed at 18th February 1943 and got a decent grave on a Ehrenfriedhof, which indicates that all bodies were found, identified and buried. Georgsheil, W of Aurich is over land which complies with the 3 dead crew members found.

The NVM of the Bf110 however says something different: the loss occurred on 19th February 1943 and both crew members were declared dead in March 1943 which is a strong indication that they were missing and with a great degree of certaintly dead.

Further: the Wellington started its mission and returned from it on the evening of 19th February 1943. Thus, the encounter with a Bf110 over sea all happened on the 19th February. The fact that the Bf110 crashed in flames over sea matches with the missing Hagn/Prinzel crew as well.

I will look into the Interception and Tactics Reports (RAF) whether these give away other details, but I am pretty confident that the loss of the Bf110 occurred on the evening of 19th February, therefore more or less the night of 19/20th February, not the night before.

All the best, Marcel

[Stig Jarlevik]

All

Thanks for all feed backs on this one. This prompt me to a scenario where Hagn/Prinzel damage the Wellington and get shot down in the process. Quite a good reason why no claim was made for HE531 in spite of it catching fire for a moment. Quite ironic that by unintentionally giving his life, Sgt Crowhurst saved his crew to fight another day....
Or to quote Billy Pilgrim: Poo-tee-weet. So it goes.

Best Rgds
Stig

[Faenor]

Hi,

Here is a link to the Combat Report of Sgt. Wilcock - owned by someone and would make disclosures?

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/d...resultcount=87


Faenor