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  #21  
Old 31st December 2009, 15:15
Larry deZeng Larry deZeng is offline
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Re: Valence airfield

Eleusis really got pounded, didn't it? The heavy expenditure of air power on this one airfield goes to show that the Allies considered it a high priority target as they began their mission to subdue the Luftwaffe's capabilities in the eastern Mediterranean and the Balkans.

Interestingly, most of the after-raid damage assessments by the Germans for nearly all of the attacks you listed are available in the surviving Heeresgruppe E and Heeresgruppe F daily reports. I've read most of them and there is great disparity between the actual damage reported by the Germans and what the Allied air crews could observe from the air and through reconnaissance photos taken after the raid. There was a lot of "wishful thinking" on the part of MAAF back in Italy!

L.
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  #22  
Old 31st December 2009, 16:20
Larry deZeng Larry deZeng is offline
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Re: Valence airfield

Valence Postscript:

I have just discovered in my notes that there was indeed a major facility there. At the end of 1942/beginning of 1943, Feldluftpark 3/VI moved from Flers in Normandy to Nîmes/102 km NW of Marseille, and then moved again later in 1943 to Valence. A Feldluftpark in 1944 typically had 170 Germans and 800 to 1,000 local civilian workers and was a depot for aviation and Flak equipment, components and spare parts.

This is all from German documents and it is surprising that it was not included in that Top Secret Air Ministry list I mentioned earlier. That list was prepared from all intelligence resources, including ULTRA.

L.
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  #23  
Old 31st December 2009, 18:47
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Andy Mitchell Andy Mitchell is offline
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Re: Valence airfield

Re - Postscript.

Yes, interesting regarding the Feldluftpark - Check Remi's post, I think he mentioned the existence of a Luftpark and a Feldwerkstatt but did not identify the units involved.

I will add the details to the page in due course.


Re - Wishful thinking

I think that this also applied to the combat results against the defending fighters e.g. "of about 20 intercepting enemy planes, 6 shot down, 4 probably, and 4 damaged".

Once again many thanks.
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  #24  
Old 24th January 2010, 18:11
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Re: Valence airfield

Guys,

For those that are interested, please see the new Eleusis page on the LuftwaffedData Wiki.

Many thanks to those that supplied information, including Larry deZeng and Dan Setzer. I have included a separate link to Dan's detailed article on the 16 Nov 1943 340th BG mission to Eleusis within the Wiki page and will also include additional reference links in due course.
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  #25  
Old 24th January 2010, 19:55
Larry deZeng Larry deZeng is offline
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Re: Valence airfield

Looks great, Andy! It would be nice if it could help generate some interest in the other 99% of the Luftwaffe that has nothing to do with Werknummern, Stammabzeichen, Verbandsabzeichen, Jagdflugzeuge, Abschüße and related, but I despair, I despair...........
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  #26  
Old 24th January 2010, 21:38
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Re: Valence airfield

I can contribute with some more infos regarding the Eleusis airport:

Fp.Nr.14 994 (07.41-10.42) Fl.H.Kdtr. (E) 15/VII / Eleusis
Kdr., Major Hans Schmoler, 07.41 Major Otto Adrario
Offz., Fü.Ln.Zug, Oblt. Richter, Oblt. Lenz

(10.42-04.43) Fl.H.Kdtr. A 202/IV / Eleusis
Kdr., Major Otto Adrario
(04.43-04.44) Fl.H.Kdtr. A 210/III / Eleusis
Kdr., 15.10.42-06.08.43 Major Otto Adrario
06.08.43-01.02.44 Obstlt. Dr. Hans Becker
1. Kp. Ltn. Behrens, Wd. Insp. Georg Engel (vw.) 27.06.43
ab 01.02.1944 Obstlt. Theo Prüssner

(01.04.44-10.44) Fl.H.Kdtr. A 105/XVII / Eleusis
Kdr., 06.44 Obstlt. Schulz, 10.44 Major Wagner


more ground units
(09.41-14.06.44) Lw.Bau-Btl. 21/XI, 2. Kp. / 09.41 Eleusis
(08.41-23.03.44) Lw.Bau-Ger.Zug 12/VII / ab 29.08.41 Eleusis

(22.03.42-44) Lw.Bau-Btl. 4/XVII, 2. Kp. / 22.03.42 in Eleusis eingetrofen
(ab 1941) Mittl.Fl.Betr.St.Kol. 1/VI / 1941 Eleusis
(1942-10.44) Mittl.Fl.Betr.St.Kol. 513/VI / 11.43 Eleusis
Kol.Fü., 09.41 Oblt. Hockenmeyer
(10.1943) Trsp.Kol.d.Lw. 113/IV / 10.43 Fl.Pl. Eleusis
Kol.Fü., Oblt. Schwarz
(ab 1941) Trsp.Kol.d.Lw. 6/XVII / 01.42 Eleusus-Korinth

(1941-1942) Werkst.Zug d.Lw. 3/IV / 09.41 Flgpl. Eleusis

(ab 23.10.42) Feldwerft-Abtl.d.Lw. IV/20 Eleusis
(1941-1943) Ln.Stelle E 15/VII / Fl.H.Kdtr. Eleusis

(1941-07.42) Ln.Stelle E 105/XVII / Fl.H.Kdtr. Eleusis
(ab 20.12.43) 132. Flgh. Betr. Kp. (Qu.) / Eleusis, 1 Zug Megara
Kp.Chef, Oblt. von Stering
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  #27  
Old 24th January 2010, 22:03
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Re: Valence airfield

Byron,

Many thanks for this. Will look to add your additions over the next few days. Will also start to create entries for the Fl.H.Kdtr.

Larry,

Totally agree.
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Last edited by Andy Mitchell; 24th January 2010 at 22:06. Reason: additional comment
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  #28  
Old 25th January 2010, 01:42
Larry deZeng Larry deZeng is offline
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Re: Valence airfield

Yes, Byron, that's very helpful, especially the additional Bodenorganisation units. Many years ago, I went through most of the T-311, T-312, T-314 and T-501 microfilm rolls that pertain to Greece, but not all of them. Did you find those addition Bodenorganisation units in the microfilms?

L.
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  #29  
Old 25th January 2010, 12:05
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Re: Valence airfield

Hi Larry,

Yes, i found a lot of "Bodenorganisationen" in the microfilms of Hgr.E, Befehlshaber Griechenland, etc. In the years i bought them, they existed as films only, so you can imagine the trouble i had to read them with a very old enlargement device i could purchase, working with a crank like a barrel-organ. It looks like a television, i still have it.
Later, i got help from the historical archive of the army in Athens, they scaned a lot of the films for me or gave me copies from their deposit
A great help was my good friend Mr.Norbert Kannapin as well. He has a gigantic archiv and is always willing to help.
Unfortunately, no proper published research on this secondary area exists.

regards
Byron
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  #30  
Old 25th January 2010, 16:37
Larry deZeng Larry deZeng is offline
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Re: Valence airfield

Thanks, Byron. Very interesting. In 1982 I bought a Micro Design Model 935 microfilm reader for about $400 and used it daily until about 2000. Before that I used an old classroom filmstrip projector that my father modified for 35mm microfilm so I could project the frames onto a wall and read them. Very cumbersome and slow-going, to says the least.

I have been working on the Bodenorganisation units since 1984 and have shoe boxes full of 4" x 6" index cards with notes on each unit, about 14,000 of them in all. It is probably the most complete and detailed collection in existence. I had hoped to convert them to digital format in my computer, but I am too old now to complete the job. Unfortunately, because the Luftwaffe destroyed some 96% of its archived records, a complete history for each and every unit of the Bodenorganisation is impossible, but I do have at least a few entries for most and many entries for some.

Norbert Kannapin, of course, is a "hero" to all of us who are interested in and work with the organizational structure and development of the Luftwaffe, 1939-45, and you are very lucky to have his help with information from his collections. Yes, there is no published material on this subject aside from Kannapin's 3-Band Dt. Feldpost book.

Larry
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