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  #1  
Old 12th September 2005, 14:29
Bertrand H Bertrand H is offline
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"US Operation Record Book" Which inside and where ?

Hi,

Last term of 2004 I let a request about a friendly fire on 9 july 1944 between P47 of 353 FG 351 FS and Spit of n°341 sqdn. This question was on the old forum. Alas I did a bad manipulation of files and delete my copy. So like we cannot have have access to this old forum, I would like to know if someone knows the reference of the "US ORB" for this week of july 1944 and if we can have the serial flown these days for each pilot – the similar of the Form 541 in the RAF ORB ? Where are filed the US ORB ?

Will be happy to read some help

TIA,

Bertrand H





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  #2  
Old 12th September 2005, 15:02
Rabe Anton Rabe Anton is offline
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Re: "US Operation Record Book" Which inside and where ?

Hallo Bertrand!


The USAAF did not use Operational Record Books ("ORBs").

There are two primary series of records for the operational history of USAAF units. First, an operational summary or "mission report " was prepared for each combat mission flown by each unit. These are the master records for each operation. The ops sums generally state the number and type of aircraft launched; date; time up, TOT, and time down; ordnance released or rounds fired; observed results of the attack; and losses. The individual aircraft and pilots participating in the mission are NOT usually recorded. The AFHRA holds ca. 10-15 percent of mission reports for World War II; the National Archives the remaining ca. 85 percent. There is no observable pattern as to what records are in which institution.

The second main series of operational records for USAAF units are the unit histories. These vary widely, so widely that one can only say that sometimes quite a lot of operational data may be found and sometimes little or none. As you seem to be French, it may help to know that the unit histories are the equivalent of les journaux de marche.

Best,

RA
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Old 12th September 2005, 23:51
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: "US Operation Record Book" Which inside and where ?

Hi,

Seen your reply to "F" on the 353rd FG Forum, it seems to answer your own question.
Hatch, Maguire Furneaux and Strbell each were credited with one claim this date.
Question is "How many Luftwaffe Me109's were shot down or struck off on return to base on the 9th July 44 in the same area as this "Blue on blue" took place ?" if the answer is three then there you go.

Also was Capt. Boudier the only French officer to be lost in the region on the 9th ?

Alex
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Old 13th September 2005, 02:11
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: "US Operation Record Book" Which inside and where ?

Hi ,

The three Spitfires claimed and confirmed by JG26 from 453 RCAF.
453 Sqdn lost none.
As the ID was certain it would seem that the claims were made in good faith and that the pilot and verifier(s)(?) were certain of the kills at the time.
JG27 and JG54 each had one Spitfire claim. These too must have been just as those claims of JG26.

A 274 Sqdn Spitfire crashed into a Balloon near Wrotheram .
A 610 Sqdn Spitfire crashed off Dungeness on a V-1 patrol.
A 341 Sqdn Spitfire was shot down near Rouen.

It would look as though the only Spitfire combat loss was 341's blue on Blue by the 351st's P47.

Were RAF claims any better ?
453 Sqdn claimed 3 destroyed, 1 probable, 6 damaged.
while 340,341 and 145Wg each claimed one.
USAAF Claims
P38 claimed 1 destroyed
P47 claimed 6 destroyed and 2 damaged
Therefore total claimed destroyed = 12 (includes 1 Spitfire)
Did 11 Luftwaffe fighters get shot down ?

Alex
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Old 13th September 2005, 08:25
Bertrand H Bertrand H is offline
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Re: "US Operation Record Book" Which inside and where ?

thanks Alex and Rabe



**Also was Capt. Boudier the only French officer to be lost in the region on the 9th ?**

According to the F540 (Operation record book) of 145 Wing here is what it is written :



24 Spit Mk IX of 340-341 sqdns led by W/Co W.V. Crawford Compton, DSO, DFC took off at 1230 from Selsey to act as target cover to 208 Lancs and Halifax attacking noballs target SE of Dieppe. The operation was according to plan. When over the Rouen aera the sqdns saw aircraft to the SW and gave chase. They found them to be P47S which were engaging some 8 Me 109s. In the ensuing dogfight one Me 109 was destroyed by the W/CO, flying with340 and another by Cdt Fournier of 340 sqdn. Both enemy aircraft were left spinning with flames and smoke coming out. In the fight, captain Boudier, 341 sqdn and a P47 where on the tail of a 109 , when the P47 attacked captain Boudier was able to bale out, but a parachute was seen in the aera. No flak were encountered. Three a/c landed at Selsey by 1335, three at B2 by 1415 and 17 at B4 by 1415.

Similar text in the F540/F541 of 341 sqdn.





Rabe,



Are there some references 'on lines' or 'pdf files' with such "mission report " or "unit histories" that we can order ? References of 353/351 are welcomed.



TIA



Bertrand
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  #6  
Old 13th September 2005, 15:42
Rabe Anton Rabe Anton is offline
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Rabe Anton
Re: "US Operation Record Book" Which inside and where ?

Good Morning Bertrand!

No U.S. government web site offers the texts of either USAAF unit histories or operational summaries. I have no knowledge of private web sites. For AFHRA holdings, you may write to the AFHRA to request a determination of holdings and a microfilm quotation. If you do so, you must be exact as to the unit, the date frame, and the type of records needed (e.g., unit histories or mission reports).
.
For the National Archives, you may request a determination of holdings only since the contents of RG 18 have not been microfiched or microfilmed. To study RG 18, one must travel to Archives II at College Park, Maryland.

Best,

RA
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Old 13th September 2005, 16:30
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George Hopp George Hopp is offline
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Re: "US Operation Record Book" Which inside and where ?

Quote:
The three Spitfires claimed and confirmed by JG26 from 453 RCAF.
453 Sqdn lost none.
Slightly off topic: The RCAF had squadron numbers only up to 449. So, this was either an Anzac squadron -- Australia and New Zealand were allocated the numbers 450 to ca. 499 -- or you got the squadron number wrong. And, it couldn't be 435 Sqn. because that was a Dak transport squadron.
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