Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Allied and Soviet Air Forces

Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 7th August 2012, 04:46
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Great Britain
Posts: 4,085
Alex Smart is on a distinguished road
Liberator IX serial number question.

Hello,
I am a little puzzled over the serial numbers of the Liberator IX's.
From the Air Britain RAF Aircraft serial numbers books KA100 - KZ999 and JA100 - JZ999
Matched with the USN Bu Nos via the Joe Baugher .com USN serial number site
We have the following -
27 a/c
90021 - JT973 through to 90047 - JT999.
Then
64 a/c
90048 - JV936 through to 90111 - JV999.
But only JV936 as JV937 to JV999 (63 a/c) were not delivered.
What became of those 63 a/c that were not delivered ?

Then we have
168 a/c
KE118 to KE285 not delivered.

However for this last batch of Liberator IX's
if we look at the Air Britain book "The British Air Commission & Lend-Lease" on page 125 we have for the KE serial batch only the following -
KE266 - KE285 (29) 90112 -90131 (20) Cancelled.
So firstly KE266 to KE285 is only 20 a/c so is the number (29) a printers error ?
Then were did those a/c numbered KE118 to KE265 go ?
Finaly what became of those KE266 to KE284 ?
Thanks
Alex
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 7th August 2012, 21:17
twocee twocee is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 326
twocee is on a distinguished road
Re: Liberator IX serial number question.

There were two contracts for the RY-3, the first for 86 aircraft, the second for 26. Of the 112 total, 79 were cancelled.

Those built were 90020 and 90021, 90023-90050 and 90057-90059. One additional aircraft, which would have been 90022(JT974), was built and retained by the contractor. Several of the RAF aircraft were retained by the US Navy; others were returned at the ending of hostilities.

George Kernahan
__________________
George Kernahan
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 8th August 2012, 17:03
twocee twocee is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 326
twocee is on a distinguished road
Re: Liberator IX serial number question.

  1. Alex, The figures I gave of 112 ordered and 79 cancelled come from a US Navy BuAer production schedule. The aircraft built for the Navy were: 90020,90021, 90023 to 90050 and 90057 to 90059 giving a total of 33. The first 27 of these from 90021 received the RAF serials JT973, JT975 to 999 and JV936. The first, and last five built, went to the US Navy direct (90020,90049,50,57,58,59). I don't have any of Jim Halley's serial books but the AB book by Meekcoms on Lend-Lease shows the RAF cancellations as JV937-999 and KE266-285. KE118 to 265 were Hellcats. George
__________________
George Kernahan
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 9th August 2012, 06:32
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Great Britain
Posts: 4,085
Alex Smart is on a distinguished road
Re: Liberator IX serial number question.

Hello George,
What I have from the www and the books noted earlier is -
1 - 90020 - ?
2 - 90021 - JT973 - 45 Gp "Rockcliff Icewagon", SOC 20/9/48.
3 - 90022 - JT974 - Retained by Contractor.
4 - 90023 - JT975 - 45 Gp SOC 28/2/46.
5 - 90024 - JT976 - 45 Gp/280 Wg SOC 28/2/46.
6 - 90025 - JT977 - Not delivered - to USAAF/USN/US Marines ?
7 - 90026 - JT978 - AAEE/45 Gp Returned to USN 1946.
8 - 90027 - JT979 - 45 Gp/ 280 Wg Crashed New Zealand 4/7/45.
9 - 90028 - JT980 - Not delivered - to USAAF/USN/US Marines ?
10 - 90029 - JT981 - 45 Gp Returned to USN 1946.
11 - 90030 - JT982 - 231 Sqn Crashed Atlantic 4/7/45.
12 - 90031 - JT983 - 1332 CU/ 231 Sqn/ 45 Gp Returned to USN 1946.
13 - 90032 - JT984 - 45 Gp/ 280 Wg Returned to USN 1946.
14 - 90033 - JT985 - 45 Gp/ 232 Sqn Crashed Dorset UK 15/6/45.
15 - 90034 - JT986 - 45 Gp SOC 28/2/46.
16 - 90035 - JT987 - 45 Gp SOC 28/2/46.
17 - 90036 - JT988 - 45 Gp SOC 28/2/46.
18 - 90037 - JT989 - 45 Gp Returned to USN 1946.
19 - 90038 - JT990 - 45 Gp SOC 26/2/46.
20 - 90039 - JT991 - 45 Gp Returned to USN 1946.
21 - 90040 - JT992 - 45 Gp Returned to USN 1946.
22 - 90041 - JT993 - 45 Gp SOC 28/2/46.
23 - 90042 - JT994 - 1332 CU/ 231 Sqn/ 45 Gp SOC 28/2/46.
24 - 90043 - JT995 - Not delivered - to USAAF/USN/US Marines ?
25 - 90044 - JT996 - Not delivered - to USAAF/USN/US Marines ?
26 - 90045 - JT997 - 45 Gp Returned to USN 1946.
27 - 90046 - JT998 - Not delivered - to USAAF/USN/US Marines ?
28 - 90047 - JT999 - Not delivered - to USAAF/USN/US Marines ?
29 - 90048 - JV936 - 45 Gp Returned to USN 1946.
30 - 90049 - JV937 - Not delivered - to USAAF/USN/US Marines ?
31 - 90050 - JV938 - Not delivered - to USAAF/USN/US Marines ?
************************************************
32 - 90051 - JV939
33 - 90052 - JV940
34 - 90053 - JV941
35 - 90054 - JV942
36 - 90055 - JV943
37 - 90056 - JV944
ALL Six cancelled
**************************************************
38 - 90057 - JV945
39 - 90058 - JV946
40 - 90059 - JV947
ALL three cancelled
**************************************************
41 - 90060 - JV948
42 - 90061 - JV949
through to
92 - 90111 - JV999
ALL fiftytwo cancelled
BUT
90060 and 90061 numbers were reassigned to experimental Bell L-39 -1 and Bell L-39-2.
************************************************** ***
93 - 90112 - KE266
Through to
112 - 90131 - KE285
All twenty cancelled.
************************************************** ***
90132 through to 90384 were to be R2Y -1 Privateer's.
All 53 cancelled.
BUT
90132 through to 90271 were numbers transfered to B-24M's (PB4Y-1's) of the USN.
************************************************** ***
RE your note on Hellcats.
The Air brit book KA100 to KZ999 does not mention the serials except in reference to Liberator IX's not delivered.
BUT
the AB book "Fleet Air Arm Aircraft 1939 to 1945" does reference
42 - F6F-5 Hellcat F.II
KE118 to KE157
20 - F6F-5N Hellcat II(NF)
KE160 to KE179
35 - F6F-5 Hellcat F.II
KE180 to KE214
15 - F6F-5 Hellcat F.II
KE215 to KE229
36 - F6F-5 Hellcat F.II
KE230 to KE265

Well spotted.
Thanks
Alex
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 9th August 2012, 08:18
Col Bruggy Col Bruggy is online now
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,427
Col Bruggy will become famous soon enough
Re: Liberator IX serial number question.

Hello,

Liberator C.IX JT979 (232 Sqn.) - Crashed at Whenuapai, New Zealand on 1-9-1945, not 4-7-1945.

Col
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 9th August 2012, 18:01
twocee twocee is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 326
twocee is on a distinguished road
Re: Liberator IX serial number question.

Alex,

Looking at your table:

I have the following as going direct to the USN:

90020, 90049, 90050, 90057, 90058 and 90059

The following were never delivered to the RAF and reverted to the US Navy:

90025, 90028, 90043, 90044, 90046 and 90047

The following were returned by the RAF:

90026, 90037, 90039, 90045 and 90048

I have not seen any evidence that 90029, 31, 32 or 40 were ever returned and wonder where they ended up at the end of their RAF service?

George
__________________
George Kernahan
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 9th August 2012, 21:56
Graham Boak Graham Boak is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lancashire, UK
Posts: 1,659
Graham Boak is on a distinguished road
Re: Liberator IX serial number question.

Oughton's The Liberator in RAF and Commonwealth Service states that the phrase "returned to the USN" was a euphemism, and at least 12 of the Mk.IXs were scrapped at Cartierville. Indeed, 12 of them are recorded as being "Struck off charge 28.2.46. Returned to the USN 16.4.46". These include 90029, 31,32 and 40.

Of the others you mention, those past 90048 are included in cancelled serials. The last recorded serial is JV936 90048, which is reported to have been delivered to 45 Group but there is no record of service.
JT997 90045 retained in USA: retd to USN 16.4.46
JT991 90039 arr Dorval 26.5.45, 231 Sq (20), retd USN 16.4.46
JT898 90037 similar
JT978 90026 used for trials and for investigation and rectification of structural defects, then similar

90025, 43,44,46,and 47 were allocated serials, but there is no record of service.
90028 was reported at Northolt 7.45 as 231 Sq (9) but there is no record of service. Convair and USN records state that it was returned to manufacturer for the investigation and correction of undesirable flying characteristics.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10th August 2012, 17:50
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Great Britain
Posts: 4,085
Alex Smart is on a distinguished road
Re: Liberator IX serial number question.

Hello Col,
Thank you for the correction re JT979's crash date.
Looks like I made a typo error .

many thanks
Alex
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10th August 2012, 17:54
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Great Britain
Posts: 4,085
Alex Smart is on a distinguished road
Re: Liberator IX serial number question.

Hello Graham,
Thank you for the info on the book "The Liberator in RAF and Commonwealth Service". Still on my "wanted" list.
So am grateful for the update.
Many thanks
Alex
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10th August 2012, 18:00
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Great Britain
Posts: 4,085
Alex Smart is on a distinguished road
Re: Liberator IX serial number question.

Hello,

Does anyone have anything at all on the use of the C-87C (RY-3) with the USAAF ?
I can find zero details on the C-87C. How many which serial numbers and what Units ?

Thanks
Alex
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Friendly fire WWII Brian Allied and Soviet Air Forces 802 17th January 2023 10:55
"BW" serial number Husons in RAF Service Alex Smart Allied and Soviet Air Forces 6 23rd June 2011 19:41
Trying to find serial number of P-51 Mustang-325th FG- flown by Frank M. Bolek? Mysticpuma Allied and Soviet Air Forces 3 3rd June 2009 00:15
Help with a P38 serial number please Alex Smart Allied and Soviet Air Forces 4 11th December 2008 16:40
Lt. Walter McCreary- 332nd FG POW-P-51B serial number kaki3152 Allied and Soviet Air Forces 3 15th June 2008 11:07


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:10.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net