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Old 8th December 2006, 19:59
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LW (JG3?) losses 28 July 1944 and 2 march 1945

Several questions actually.

Remi was kind enough to send a spreadsheet with LW losses for 28 July - in the spreadsheet were three losses for 109's from JG3 but no location or time (or pilots) - does anyone know more?

Roscoe Allen claimed 5 destroyed and two probable Me 109s on 2 March 1945 which were disallowed because the film was faulty and no witness. The encounter was described a bounce between 1020 and 1030 between Dummer Lake and Koblenz on 109's carrying a small bomb. Insignia for several described as 'snake' on lh side - which I presume would be the JG3 dragon... plus blue wingtips and top of fin to 'presumably make the 109 look more like a 51'..

any details which might corroborate this encounter?

On 7 April a 355th pilot Mills was KIA and buried at Verrigsen way south of Hildesheim. He was possibly KIA due to MAC but could have been shot down. Any Luftwaffe claims between 1215 and 1300 in this area?

Last - what are the time standards for Tony Woods database of LW claims and losses? Zulu, British Standard or German - (+1hr over Zulu/Brit Std?)

Thanks in advance

Bill
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Old 8th December 2006, 20:36
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Re: LW (JG3?) losses 28 July 1944 and 2 march 1945

Bill

JG 3 in it's whole was serving on the Eastern Front in March of 45

JG 27 lost 109's
III./JG 300 lost 109's
IV./JG 301 was almost entirely wiped out the 2 March 45 date flying Bf 109G-10's.

I./JG 2 and III./JG 26 with several losses but these were Fw 190D's.

I believe one of our forum members Peter K. can answer further as he has written a book about the air battle covering March 2, 45.

Erich ~
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Old 9th December 2006, 02:17
Heuser Heuser is offline
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Re: LW (JG3?) losses 28 July 1944 and 2 march 1945

Gentlemen,
the D-9 of I./JG 2 had some losses between Rhine River and Gießen for 02.03.1945. At least one D-9 loss was listed as "Bf 109" in American sources.

Maybe it helps, regards

Heuser
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Old 9th December 2006, 10:51
rob van den nieuwendijk rob van den nieuwendijk is offline
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Re: LW (JG3?) losses 28 July 1944 and 2 march 1945

Hello,

For 28 July 44 two losses:

7./JG 3: Uffz Ernst Grebenstein at St Lo/France - shot down in combat - KIA and 7./JG 52 (flying with JG 3) Fw Richard Osimg (?) at Argentan/France - shot down in combat - KIA.

Hope this helps ---

Cheers
Rob
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Old 9th December 2006, 17:56
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Re: LW (JG3?) losses 28 July 1944 and 2 march 1945

Rob - the questions I have are regarding the three III/JG3 losses. The one you noted about 7/JG3 is also there.

I tried to paste the spreadsheet but the tabs screwed up so:

The three in question are from III/JG3 - Me 109G's but the spreadsheet doesn't have a location (but does reference your 7/JG3 item)

This is about one of the 'puzzler's' regarding an engagement E Mulhausen at 1020 on 28 July, 1944. I have been able to ID the specific unit (JG300 Fw 190s) that engaged the 355th FG at 1000 SSW Merseburg, but two (of 6 attcking) Me 109s were destroyed at 1020 along the return route. One my father chased into the ground and filmed the wreckage, and one that collided with a B-24 and seen to blow up - pilot possibly got out. A third was also hit heavily by the B-24's and seen to limp away, smoking..

The times above would be British Time/Zulu and contained in encounter reports.

So, the mystery continues but thank you very much for your help!

Is there a database (such as the one from which Remi so kindly extracted for me for the above info)that is reasonably complete and accurate regarding LW losses that also has a time 'stamp' that you could direct me to? I need Oct 1943 through April 1945.

The biggest difficulty I have had in correlating encounters (losses and scores) between the 355th and LW is of course accurate recording of times and locations. With few exceptions I have an accurate chronological and location log from the 355th side... but LW?

Tony Woods has been very helpful but I still have a lot of questions as many of his entries don't have locations or times.

This forum has been of exceptional value - and I thnk all of you for your help

Regards,

Bill Marshall

Last edited by drgondog; 9th December 2006 at 18:02. Reason: spreadsheet tables did not paste well
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Old 9th December 2006, 18:51
rob van den nieuwendijk rob van den nieuwendijk is offline
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Re: LW (JG3?) losses 28 July 1944 and 2 march 1945

Hello Bill,

Have the spreadsheet here as well (from Remi) - alas I do not have any more details on this incident. Regret that there is no loss list like the Tony Wood claim list of the German fighters on the internet or - besides the great work of Jochen Prien et all: die Jagdfliegerverbände der Deutschen Luftwaffe, but at this moment he is at 1943, so we have to wait... and alas the Quartermaster listing for 1944 is not there (besides a small number of dates - I think at the beginning and/or and of 1944), so we have to rely on other sources...

Hope you will find the requested info in future - I know from experience that it is very difficult to match the claims, but in the end it is very rewarding when all or most of it fits -

Cheers
Rob
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