Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces

Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10th March 2007, 16:07
atckyrre atckyrre is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sola, Norway
Posts: 191
atckyrre is an unknown quantity at this point
Josef Kammhuber's Do217J-2.Questions on markings...

Ayup,

I am in the process of building Josef Kammhuber's hack while Befehlshaber Luftflotte 5, a Dornier Do217J-2. My build is based on this one picture scanned from "Luftwaffe in Finland", but I believe it has been publicized in several sources.



This is how far I've come:



My model will be depicted about mid '44 and so far I've found out the markings were N9+AA of KurierStaffel Norwegen. I am of the understanding that since this was an autonomous unit the markings were all black. And it also seems other aircraft of the unit were marked with smaller "N9" lettering.
My questions are regarding the rest of the markings. Since this was in the "early late war era" I am a bit confused about the practises. I'm inclined to think that there should be black outline crosses on the wings, large black-and-white underwing crosses, perhaps with black outline, under the wings and black-and-white cross with no outline on the fuselage. Swastika? All black?
Or should all markings be black outline only?
__________________
Kyrre Ingebrethsen
Sola, Norway.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10th March 2007, 18:56
Kari Lumppio Kari Lumppio is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Espoo, Finland
Posts: 524
Kari Lumppio is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Josef Kammhuber's Do217J-2.Questions on markings...

Hei Kyrre and others too!

This is one interesting plane. The photo is BA-MA Koblenz 514 257 69 and Valtonen's caption gives the time as early March 1944 at Alakurtti where General Kammhuber inspected NSGr 8. *

Thing is that 8. Ilmavalvontakomppania (AIr Observation Company) log has records of following Do 217 flights:

February 1944
7.2.1944 Do 217 "G9KW" 12:30 Tallinn - Pori, cancelled
8.2.1944 Do 217 "CGKW" 15:20 Riga - Pori, cancelled
9.2.1944 Do 217 C9KW 14:10 Tallinn - Kemi

(IIRC Lfl 1 HQ was at Riga that time (and they announced the flight?). It might explain the Feb 8th "hop" to Riga when the plane probably really was at Tallinn all the time - waiting for weather?)

March 1944
9.3.1944 Do 217 C9KW Pori - Insterburg

Above was from my "Helsinki" notes, but cannot find my Pori and Rovaniemi (33. Iv.K) notes. But according to my memory the Do 217 C9KW flew to Alakurtti and back. IIRC (again) there are no other recorded Do 217 flights for the Finnish area before Summer 1944. IIRC (third time) Do 217 N9AA does appear later in 1944, but I should really verify that. Earlier N9AA was a Ju 52.

EDIT: I found one Do 217 N9AA flight:

July 1944
14.7. Do 217 N9AA Schaulen - Riga - Tallinn - Pori


Based on the records I am assuming that Kammhuber's Do 217 originally was coded C9+KW. Does anyone have Stkz and or WNr for that?

I have also been told that there is a published photo of the Do 217 with the code N9+AA. Is anyone able to say where it was published?


With Best Regards,
Kari


*I guess that the photo of winter-camo II/JG 5 BF 109 G-6 Black "4" and others at Alakurtti spring 1944 is taken during the same time (and probably others too). Photo published for example in German Aircraft in Finland by Keskinen et al ( ISBN 952-5026-07-8 )

Last edited by Kari Lumppio; 10th March 2007 at 19:31. Reason: premature hit on Enter, second EDIT added data
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11th March 2007, 09:59
atckyrre atckyrre is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sola, Norway
Posts: 191
atckyrre is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Josef Kammhuber's Do217J-2.Questions on markings...

Many thanks for your reply Kari. Unfortunately I can't help you with Stkz nor WNr while all my info was from Luftwaffe in Finnland and a few discussions with Kjetil Åkra.
With your elaboration you have explained the defensive armament though, as I was wondering why it was present in that picture. I'm not doubting he flew with guns on board when in Finland but with the courier agreement with Sweden I was a bit curious why the guns were in place if he just came from Norway.
Actually I doubt the guns were removed even if flying over Sweden. Several Kurier crashes saw guns stowed in the airframe apparently.

Kyrre
__________________
Kyrre Ingebrethsen
Sola, Norway.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 28th March 2007, 11:42
atckyrre atckyrre is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sola, Norway
Posts: 191
atckyrre is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Josef Kammhuber's Do217J-2.Questions on markings...

Well here's the finished model. For those interested I used Xtracrylics for the camouflage and the markings were from various sources. The Luftflotte 5 insignia on the nose was done with some leftover decals and the eagle was painted on.









__________________
Kyrre Ingebrethsen
Sola, Norway.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:06.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net