ID Bf110's of Stab./ZG76, 1941, need help.

[Evgeny Velichko]

Hallo gentlemen!

As we can see from Losslists, Sraffelletter "E" was used by two units, during 1941:
M8+AE to M8+VE was used by Erg.Gr./ZG76 (1 and 2nd Staffel)
M8+WE, M8+XE, M8+YE, M8+ZE were used by Stab./ZG76.

Image is from Luftwaffe in Focus.
Bf 110D or E (enlarged tail is visible) M8+XE. Aircraft of W.Grabmann.
Green X, outlined in white. No victory marks. Unknown spinner tip colors. Unknown emblems. No yellow wingtips. "8" of code is of rounded style.


Images from various sourses.
Bf 110E-2, W.Nr.3761, M8+YE. Well known aircraft of Hptm. G.Schaschke.
Overpaint on fuselage sides. Left tailfin seems was danaged, repaired, and then replaced, and victory bars were repainted in different order.
Green Y with whote outline. up to 19 victory marks. Spinner color: RLM70 base, with 1/3 white. Middle belt - painted in Green, spinner tip - white.
Undersurfaces wingtips - Yellow. No emblems.



Tailfin of this aircraft. Note damage overpainting (in area of swastika) in early july.




And now the most strange aircraft. I got this images long ago, but only recently, during analisys, I got the pilot's name.
Bf110E-2, M8+ZE, W.Nr.4502, Aircraft of Oblt. Hans Krigel.
Oblt. Kriegel was StaKa 7./ZG76 after Oblt. W.Schiller, who was shot down and missed in 2N+BM in sept. 1940.
Kriegel was injured in early 1941, and seems went to Stab./ZG76 upon recovery.
Here is his 2N+DM of 7./ZG76.


Note "Dita", name of his girlfriend.
Here she comes:


And now, aircrafts in Norway:


And then aircrafts receive spinner colors (as described above for M8+YE), "Dita 13" and aircraft codes. Only __+_E" is visible.


It is known, that he had 1 "Western" victory - Beaufighter of 252 Sqdn. RAF, shot down on 16.04.1941. Then, he could achieve some more victories along with his leader, Hptm. Schaschke, against VVS.

Then, aircraft was handed to Zerstorerstaffel./JG77 and > (Z)./JG5, and lost with another pilot at controls. "Z" is green outlined in white. Style of "8" is squared


Tailfin is now exposed in museum.


And now - questional aircrafts.
Bf110E/Trop,
Note enlarged radiators of Trop version, and Stab./ZG76 spinner colors. Also, note "LONY 13" , as with Oblt. Kriegel's aircraft. Also, nose section seeps heavy overpainted.


Bf110E/Trop
Note enlarged radiators of Trop version, and Stab./ZG76 spinner colors. Part of ZG76 unit code visible "_8+__", with green overpainted aircraft code with white outline. Style of "8" is squared, as it is M8+ZE, and on second aircraft of Oblt. Jabs (M8+IP) and some other late II./ZG76 aircrafts. Important is white round, with some inscription inside (simular to DITA 13 and LONY 13)

Also, there is aircraft in background with simular markings.

Gentlemen - what do You think about pilot of M8+ZE (does my suggestion right or not?) and does anybody know something about last two aircrafts?

[markjsheppard]

Evening Evgeny,

Can you let me know about these two photos again? I'm still looking to try and tie Bf110E-2 M8+ZE of Stab/ZG76 (lost with 6.(Z)/JG5 on 11th March 1942).

The fin had 5 victories. One RAF and four Russian the last being 15.08.41. Oblt Hans Kriegel 's aircraft.

Hope you are keeping well.

regards,

Mark

[markjsheppard]

Hi Evgeny,

A very small image is available when you google Stab ZG76. This is Oblt Hans Kriegel plane Bf110E-2 W.Nr4502 M8+ZE formerly of Stab/ZG76 and lost with 6.(Z)/JG5. There are a couple of other photos of her with the 'Dita 13' painted on the side of the nose.

Can you repost the image again.

regards,

Mark

[BrianC]

Hi guys

May I hi-jack your interesting post re Stab/JG76, please?

From your notes it would seem that four (Schwarm) Bf110s comprised Stab - M8+WE, XE, YE and ZE - but who were the pilots? I have Schaschke, Kriegel and Hoffmann. Who was the fourth?

We know that Schaschke gained 21 victories. Kriegel 4 (dates?) and Hoffmann at least 2. The unidentified pilot?

Stay safe

Brian

[Maciej Góralczyk]

Mark, are these the photos you're looking for?



What is interesting, is that Kriegel earlier (February-April 1941) flew another 'Dita 13', most likely a Bf 110 C-4 WNr. 3271, which carried 6 victory bars on the tail fin...

A photo of 'Lony 13' was sold on Ebay in 2015:

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by BrianC

Hi guys

May I hi-jack your interesting post re Stab/JG76, please?

From your notes it would seem that four (Schwarm) Bf110s comprised Stab - M8+WE, XE, YE and ZE - but who were the pilots? I have Schaschke, Kriegel and Hoffmann. Who was the fourth?

We know that Schaschke gained 21 victories. Kriegel 4 (dates?) and Hoffmann at least 2. The unidentified pilot?

Stay safe

Brian

Brian

Most likely Walter Grabman. Seems he was very much in favour of the letter X and used aircraft with that letter basically all through his career.

Cheers
Stig

[BrianC]

Hi Stig

Good to hear from you!

Is there any evidence that Grabmann flew operations against the Russians?

Cheers
Stay safe

Brian

[Chris Goss]

Here is one of my photos of Kriegel

[Stig Jarlevik]

Originally Posted by BrianC

Hi Stig
Is there any evidence that Grabmann flew operations against the Russians?
Brian

I think that is very difficult to say Brian, unless you can get hold of either his own Flugbuch or some other documents that should indicate that. I don't know when he was promoted to General-Major but he took over as Jagdfliegerführer Nord-Norwegen on 1 Aug 1941 even though he had basically already served in such a Jafü leadership position/capacity at least since the war with Soviet Union began.

I doubt the intention was he should fly missions, but who knows? Many "grounded" officers did fly missions anyway....on both sides! He never scored anything against the Russians, so no short-cut there either.

Cheers
Stig

[BrianC]

Hi guys

To continue the hi-jack, if I may -

We know that Grabmann was promoted and posted in August 1941.

Was there a connection with Major Walter Groth's posting, who was killed in an air accident on 13 August, when on his to Kirkenes to take command of Z-Staffel (or Stab/ZG76?

Cheers
Brian