Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum  

Go Back   Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum > Discussion > Allied and Soviet Air Forces

Allied and Soviet Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the Air Forces of the Western Allies and the Soviet Union.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 21st January 2019, 19:36
Adriano Baumgartner Adriano Baumgartner is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,649
Adriano Baumgartner is on a distinguished road
Wellington Type 487 Mark IX (Transport Troop version) - photo exist?

Dear all,

Is there a picture of the sole Vickers Wellington Type 486 Mark IX (Transport Troop version) available?

What was the fate of this machine and its serial number?

Thanks
Adriano S. Baumgartner
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 22nd January 2019, 01:06
Col Bruggy Col Bruggy is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,137
Col Bruggy will become famous soon enough
Re: Wellington Type 487 Mark IX (Transport Troop version) - photo exist?

Hello,

Vickers Type 487 were Wellington Mk.XVII's. Do you mean Vickers Type 436 (which was a Mk.IX). If so, the first conversion was P2522.

"The transport Wellingtons could carry up to nine passengers or eighteen troops, with Mk.IC [sic]* P2522 of the Airborne Forces Experimental Establishment (AFEE) at Sherburn-in-Elmet being the first conversion, emerging as a T.Mk.IX." (p.200).

Wellington Variants & Production. Variants and Vickers type numbers.

Mk.IX Type 437.

Converted Mk.IA for Transport Command, total number unknown. (p.230).

* Should read Mk.IA.

See:
Wimpy A Detailed Illustrated History of the Vickers Wellington in Service, 1938-1953
Bond,Steve
London:Grub Street,2014
p.200.

Air-Britain's Royal Air Force Aircraft P1000-R9999 (1996 ed.)/Halley, p.19, mentions the following:

18 Wellington IAs delivered in December 1939 and January 1940 by Vickers, Weybridge, to Contract No. 781439/36 to replace RNZAF aircraft. (P2515-P2532).

P2522

Converted to DWI
To 1 GRU
To RAE
To 3 GRU
To AFEE
To 24 Sqn.
Struck off Charge 10.3.43

No mention of Mk.IX conversion.

Bruce Robertson in "The Bible", British Military Aircraft Serials 1878-1987 (p.110), mentions:

P2515-P2532 - Vickers Wellington IA (18).

Conversions -
P2518 - DW.I
P2522 - DW.I, then Mk.IX
P2519, P2521, 2528 - Mk.XV
P2517 - became 2794M

With the following Caveat:

Mk IX - Type 437 (all conversions).

This was the formal designation applied to an unknown number of Mk IC, II, III and IV aircraft converted to carry 18 troops or equivalent payload, with turrets replaced by fairings (which had originally been designed to allow Wellingtons to be flight-tested when turrets were not available). (p.21)

http://www.sirbarneswallis.com/files...References.pdf See: Chapter 1 - The Wellington Story, p.21.

ie,

Wellington IC T2977

Converted to VIII
To 221 Sqn
Converted to IX
To 1422 Flight
Hit by Defiant AA416 while parked, Heston, 12.1.43.
Struck off Charge 8.3.43 as Beyond Economical Repair.

A-B/ RAF A/C T1000-V9999 (1997)/Halley/p.25.

Col.

Last edited by Col Bruggy; 22nd January 2019 at 03:01.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 22nd January 2019, 10:01
Adriano Baumgartner Adriano Baumgartner is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,649
Adriano Baumgartner is on a distinguished road
Re: Wellington Type 487 Mark IX (Transport Troop version) - photo exist?

Col. Bruggy,

You are indeed an amazing Bible of Aeronautical Knowledge! Congratulations...and a big thank you on that thread.

I made a Typo indeed...from this (not very useful site: https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers_Wellington)

The serial number I am looking after is LB139, which seems to have been originally a Mark VIII (G.R.) from this site: http://www.worldmilitair.com/serials...%20aa%20la.pdf

However there is a mention to it being a Mark IX transport Carrier...on a Logbook.

Apparently only ONE Type 437 (Mark IX) was built...(http://www.nevingtonwarmuseum.com/vi...on.html)...but I do not know its serial number.

Do you have on the books you quoted, more information on:
a) Vickers Wellington LB139 ?
b) IF the serial number of the sole Type 437 is registered (this being a conversion from a Mark IC to a Mark IX Tranport Troop Carrier).

Maybe...maybe LB139 was later converted...or the pilot made a Typo himself...on his Logbook (probable also).

Most gratefully yours,
Adriano
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 22nd January 2019, 10:08
Adriano Baumgartner Adriano Baumgartner is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,649
Adriano Baumgartner is on a distinguished road
Re: Wellington Type 487 Mark IX (Transport Troop version) - photo exist?

I thought originally that I was looking for a Type 436 and not 486 as you put correctly

And, yes do confirm that the pilot registered on the Logbook Wellington IX or TX...depend of how one interprete it...maybe a long line on the base of the I or a mistake while writing the T....however the serial is indeed LB139...

Adriano
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 22nd January 2019, 11:38
Col Bruggy Col Bruggy is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,137
Col Bruggy will become famous soon enough
Re: Wellington Type 487 Mark IX (Transport Troop version) - photo exist?

Hello,

Wellington VIII LB139
(Fitted as a Torpedo Bomber)

To 303 Ferry Training Unit
To 3 Overseas Aircraft Delivery Unit
To 38 Sqn
To 5 Middle East Training School
Struck Off Charge 27.7.44

A-B/RAF A/C LA100-LZ999/Halley/10

Col.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 22nd January 2019, 17:35
Adriano Baumgartner Adriano Baumgartner is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,649
Adriano Baumgartner is on a distinguished road
Re: Wellington Type 487 Mark IX (Transport Troop version) - photo exist?

Dear Col. Bruggy

You can see I am not lying!...

Mark IX and LB139...

Thank you so much for your corrections and enlightment...you gave me a NORTH, really! Am just correcting the information regarding the Mark IX...

Adriano S. Baumgartner

Last edited by Adriano Baumgartner; 11th October 2019 at 21:58.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 22nd January 2019, 22:32
Col Bruggy Col Bruggy is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,137
Col Bruggy will become famous soon enough
Re: Wellington Type 487 Mark IX (Transport Troop version) - photo exist?

Hello,

Do any of these names mean anything to you, in connection with the above?

Sgt SORZANO, R.W., Sgt LABELLE, J. G., Sgt MASHITER, R, and Sgt AROSKIN, C.

Simple "Yes" or "No" will do.

Col.

Last edited by Col Bruggy; 24th January 2019 at 00:47.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 24th January 2019, 00:54
Col Bruggy Col Bruggy is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,137
Col Bruggy will become famous soon enough
Re: Wellington Type 487 Mark IX (Transport Troop version) - photo exist?

For TAO, Adriano Baumgartner:

Adriano, could you please take a look at Post# 7. A reply would be appreciated.

Col.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 24th January 2019, 04:17
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Great Britain
Posts: 3,328
Alex Smart is on a distinguished road
Smile Re: Wellington Type 487 Mark IX (Transport Troop version) - photo exist?

Hello

Just to add a little detail of the Wellington a/c in the serial batch that included LB139.

Some 150 Wellington's were built by Vickers of Weybridge as Mk.1c's and Mk.VIII's and were delivered between September 1942 and December 1942.

Serials were -
LA964 to LA998 - 35 a/c.
LB110 to LB156 - 47 a/c.
LB169 to LB197 - 29 a/c.
LB213 to LB251 - 39 a/c.
Total = 150 a/c.

Of the a/c in the batch LB110 to LB156, there are listed -
8 - Mk.1c's ( 7 of which were fitted as Torpedo Bombers ).
8 - fitted as Leigh Light a/c.c( none listed as Mk.1's ).
So the remaining 31 a/c are presumed to have been Mk.VIII's.

LB139 - is listed as a Torpedo Bomber ( Presumably a Mk.VIII ).

None of this batch is noted as being converted to anything other than TB or LL .

In my opinion the crewman may have been used to flying in a Mk.XI earlier and hence in error wrote "IX"in error in the report - part of which you kindly provided to back your request for further details on LB139.

All the very best, Perhaps others can provide pictures of other a/c in the LB139 serial range to show if indeed some were converted to Mk.IX ( XI ) a/c ? That would be good because they may show the type of side window used by this batch, is small triangle type or long type that stretched from cockpit area almost to tail .

Additional I find that Wellington a/c were -
Mk. I ; II ; III ; IV ; VI ; VIII ; X ; XI ; XII ; XIII ; XIV ; XVI , So no Mk.IX ? Confirmation please .

Alex

Last edited by Alex Smart; 24th January 2019 at 04:58.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 24th January 2019, 04:55
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
Alter Hase
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Great Britain
Posts: 3,328
Alex Smart is on a distinguished road
Re: Wellington Type 487 Mark IX (Transport Troop version) - photo exist?

Further to my earlier post.
With regard to 38 Squadron use of Wellingtons.
Nov 38 - April 40 = Mk.1.
Sep 39 - Jun 40 = Mk.Ia.
Apr 40 - Mar 43 = Mk.Ic.
Aug 41 - Oct 41 = Mk.II.
Feb 43 - Oct 43 = Mk.VIII.
Jun 43 - May 44 = Mk. XI.
Oct 43 - Feb 45 = Mk. XIII.
Jan 45 - Nov 46 = Mk. XIV.

I may have interpreted the detail incorrectly so please feel free to offer corrections.
Ref was Wng/Cdr. C.G. Jefford MBE,BA,'s book "RAF Squadrons".(2nd edition).

I also note that in an earlier post there is a link that does make reference to a Mk.IX conversion to a troop transport and is referee to as a Type 437. Then later again others(?) referred to as Type 454 and 459. Anything known about these ?

Alex
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
List of US Air Force stations in UK WW2 Bruce Dennis Allied and Soviet Air Forces 7 4th December 2018 13:27


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:42.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2018, 12oclockhigh.net