HE162 120067 vs 120222

[Choco1961]

Hello all,

I am a bit struggling with the identities of some captured HE-162 aircraft in May 1945. We know that lots of them were brought over to Kassel and that some aircraft were assembled again at that location using sometimes parts from other aircraft (tails etc.)
Some state that "Weisse 4" was 120067 and later got tail from 120097 fitted which means that some other people believe that "Weisse 4" was 120097. But when all the aircraft were send to the UK and USA the "Weisse 4" was seen heavily cannibalized (canopy removed etc..) and so I believe it never left Kassel.

Then it is stated that 120222 got the wings of 120067 (the werknummer was clearly seen written on the wingtips during presentations). But then the tail of this 120222 was fitted on aircraft 120230 ("Weisse 23") to make that one flyworthy again.
But what about 120222, was this indeed "Gelbe 7"?
Then others stated : “Gelbe 7” was 120067 in April 1945. It was captured at Leck by British troops in May 1945 and transferred to the US. Seen on a special ‘German a/c’ static on Wright Field Airfield late 1945 with rear fuselage (not tail) of 120222.
And then there is the story that “Weisse 4” transferred to UK as “AM64”. Arrived at Farnborough by road transport around August 1945 and scrapped at Farnborough in December 1946. But that "Weisse 4" was cannibalized at Kassel...

This all together makes it all very unclear to me...

Who has the solution to this mystery?
Thanks!

Harry

[Pascal Abbet]

Hello Harry,

Very interesting post!

I am in the process of analysing the He162s produced at Rostock and of course the information on the aircraft captured at Leck is one of my references.

Concerning the "white 4", I believe that the latest information that has circulated tends to confirm that it is indeed WNr. 120067. The photos taken at Leck and Kassel clearly show the similarities in the black gun muzzles, the camouflage features and the arrow on the nose...

This aircraft, seen in Kassel, is no longer equipped with its tailplanes or even its original wings.

Like all the aircraft seen at Kassel, "yellow 6", "white 3" and perhaps also "white 1", it has been dismantled (wings and tailplanes removed). It is therefore highly likely that, once they had been exported, they were reassembled without any concern for reassembling the aircraft with their original components. This was the case in France for 120015 (tailplane and ejection seat) and in the USA for 120230 (tailplane) and 120222 (wing and tailplane).

I also share your opinion that the fuselage of the "blanc 4" remained in Europe, given its state of deterioration... The Americans would have taken only the wings that would end up on the "white 7" (and not "yellow 7", the colour photo at Wright Field confirms this without discussion), WNr. 120222 (inscribed on the rear of the fuselage, like other He162s produced at Rostock).

And without any mention in the most detailed references (e.g. Buttler) of the shipment of the 120067 to the USA, we can state with a good degree of certainty the configuration of the "white 4":

He162A-2, "white 4", WNr 120067, with RLM drifts (81 or 82) and the 1./JG1 insignia on the left side. And as far as I'm concerned, the fuselage must not have reached the USA...

I would also like to congratulate you on the compilation of your data base on the He162!...
I have a few comments to make that I'll forward to you later, but the first concerns the WNr of the aircraft produced at Bernburg and Nordhausen respectively... I'm sure that the Bernburg aircraft had WNr 310XXX and not 300XXX... And I also came to the same conclusion as you that the He162, WNr 120235 captured in Leck by the British and currently being restored in Duxford must have been marked with the tactical number "red 6" of the 2./JG1...

Best regards
Pascal

[Choco1961]

Hello Pascal, thanks a lot for your detailed answer.
And yes I have started an online HE-162 database but that is far from ready. I have a lot of data and literature to process so the database will by dynamic then coming weeks/months... http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/images/icons/icon7.gif

But you are more than welcome to share any corrections etc.. Very much appreciated.

The "White 6" in stead of "Yellow 6" is a part of my puzzle as well, thanks to provide some proof from your side to select "white".

I believe the HE-162 is a very interesting subject, due to the small amount of aircraft which really were delivered to JG1 and soon after delivery they lost a lot of them as well... this means lots of JG1 codes we will never find out anymore.
For that reason it would be wonderful to find any pilots "Flugbuch" which includes flights with these aircraft.

Thanks again for your help!

Regards
Harry

[Pascal Abbet]

Hi Harry,

I think I've got a comprehension problem?
You mention white 6 for yellow 6... are you referring to the yellow 6 photographed several times in Kassel (produced in Bernburg in reference to its camouflage type) or the one restored by the IWM when it was exhibited in London?

In my comment, I was referring to the He162A-2, WNr 120235, restored as yellow 6, which from my point of view should have been red 6 in its original colours! My conclusions are based on an analysis of several photos of the He162 line-up at Leck and a photo of the He162 with the cockpit covered and which is just to the left of white 20 (120095).
And I made this comment because you mention 120235 as red 6 in your data base...

Have a nice weekend
Pascal

[Choco1961]

Hi Pascal,
Sorry for the typo from my side. I actually had to mention "Weisse 7" and not "Weisse 6".... This as reply on your statement around this serial on the 120222.

And "Rote 6" for 120235. It was captured by Allied troops at Leck in May 1945 with an unpainted front fuselage (like the 120231 also had) and a red 6 indeed. Sadly I have not seen any pictures to proof it (interesting that you have seen them..) but I refer to some statements from the past.

Thanks again!