LG 1 in action 11 May 1942

[sergey]

Originally Posted by AndreasB

Seen this? https://www.academia.edu/48269680/OP...ork_card=title
All the best
Andreas

Thank you.
This is a completely new work by Mr. Mattesini. But he does not write anything about the attack by the Italian bombers CANT.

Mr. Mattesini writes that Lively hit Otto Leupert at 16:45, but did not refer to any documents (report / application). At the same time, he writes that Helbig himself considered the departure unsuccessful.

[Nick Beale]

Here is the entry from the British Admiralty War Diary for 11 May 1942 (times are British Double Summer Time = GMT+2 hours).

[Andy Mitchell]

Hi,

For completeness here are the entries from "H.M.Ships Damaged or Sunk by Enemy Action - 3.9.39-2.9.45" published by the Admiralty in 1952.

[sergey]

Thank you. These are good links.
But links are needed from German and Italian documents, on the basis of which conclusions were drawn about the personal achievements of German pilots and the success of Italian bombers.

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by sergey

Thank you. These are good links.
But links are needed from German and Italian documents, on the basis of which conclusions were drawn about the personal achievements of German pilots and the success of Italian bombers.

The ULTRA messages are direct translations of German documents. The Germans claimed three destroyers and three were sunk. The Diary of the Italian Comando Supremo (https://issuu.com/rivista.militare1/...ii-tomo1-testo) does not mention the incident as far as I can see, so where is the evidence of any Italian involvement?

The names attached to the sinkings may possibly have been from the memories of surviving pilots rather than documents, Helbig survived the war and gave accounts of many LG 1 actions.

I attach a timeline of events taken from ULTRA and the Admiralty War Diary. If you want to relate the take-off times to the attacks, a Ju 88 could cruise at about 290–300 km/h and it is likely that all of them took off from Heraklion.

[sergey]

Here's what I mean.
Mr. Mattesini writes that Lively hit Otto Leupert, Kipling sank Joachim Helbig, and Jakel hit Gerhard Rohr. The same is written in other publications. Such information could only come from German documents - reports or applications. Are they there? Ditto for the Italian bombers of the 35th Stormo. Are there any Italian documents about this departure?

[sergey]

Originally Posted by Nick Beale

The Diary of the Italian Comando Supremo (https://issuu.com/rivista.militare1/...ii-tomo1-testo) does not mention the incident as far as I can see, so where is the evidence of any Italian involvement?

There is such information:
At 16.34 8 Ju-88 of I/LG 1 struck, each armed with two 250-kg bombs. Engagement lasted f quarter hour after which germans returned, appreciating correctly that all their bombs had missed. A few minutes later, a hundred miles northeast of Tobruk, six Cant 1007 bis bombers of 35° Stormo from Barce attacked from out ot the sun, benefiting from fact that British formation was scattered as a result of just concluded attack. They dropped their bombs unseen from high altitude. One stick of twelve 100 kg bombs straddled Lively. She tooka direct hit on B gun deck just abaft gun that exploded at a lower deck level and several near misses occurred abreast A mounting. Vessel immediately settled by bow listing heavily to starboard. A heavy explosion occurred forward and ship sank stern first within three and a half minutes. 77 of ships company were killed or missing. They never knew what hit them. RAF escort, formed by a pair of just arrived Beaufighters, could not reach three-engined italian aircraft at 8000 meters, moreover, with their bombs away and with tanks half empty.
https://ru.calameo.com/read/000796297a8346931da74

[James A Pratt III]

Warship 2018 article "Breaking 'Ultra': The Cryptologic and Intelligence War between Britain and Italy, 1931-1943 by Enroce Cernushi

Has the loss of th3 destroyers in part do to a decrypted message and has the HMS Lively sunk by Fiat BR 20 bombers of the 35th Stormo