Operation Veracity l, 18 Dec 1941, BC claims compared to Lufwaffe losses

[phasselgren]

Hi,

On the 18th December 1941 Bomber Command made a daylight attack on Scharnhorst, Gneisenau and Prinz Eugen in Brest involving Stirling (18), Halifax (18) and Manchester (11) bombers. 7 bombers were lost. 5 fell to Bf 109s of these were 4 Stirlings shot down before the escorting fighters had time to interfere.

Escorting Spitfires claimed 4 destroyed and 1 damaged Bf109 (306 and 317 Sqns) and the Stirlings claimed 3 destroyed, 3 probables and 9 damaged (7 and 15 Sqns). The Stirlings started their bomb runs at 1230 and they were attacked by the fighters at this time. Stirling claims are from The Stirling Story by Michael J.F. Bowyer and these seems to match the claims in the ORBs of 7 and 15 Sqns. I have not seen any claims made by the Halifax or Manchester units.

Were there any losses on this date that can be identified as caused by the bombers? I hope this is not an impossible question to answer. Did any of the Luftwaffe pilots make any comments about the efficiency of the bombers fire?

Thanks in advance,
Peter

[sidney]

According to Prien, Stemmer and others JFV der Deutschen LW, Part 5, page 426, the loss-list of I./JG 2, the only loss on that day was one Bf 109 F-4 of 2./JG 2, which crashed on landing at Morlaix.

18.12.41 2./JG 2 Obfw. Wolfgang Liedig + (KIA) Luftkampf (i.e., aerial combat), Absturz bei der Landung in Morlaix (i.e., crashed on landing at Morlaix), Bf 109 F-4 W.Nr. 7112

No mention whether the aircraft damage was made by the RAF fighters or bombers.

Regards,
Sinisa

[phasselgren]

Sinisa,

Thanks for the reply. It seems that most or probably all of the bombers claims were exaggerated but I am sure they were made in good faith. I have read that gunners normally flying night operations believed that normal smoke from the Bf 109-engine was instead caused by fire with claims like “M.E. 109 down in flames” as result. On another daylight operation following claims were made: “observed to dive steeply away with the engine emitting black smoke” and “following a well-aimed burst by him, one of the enemy aircraft turned over and dived vertically.”

However the pilot was seen to bale out from one of the Bf109s. If no German pilot baled out from his aircraft maybe it was a British pilot they saw. One 79 Sqn Hurricane was lost (pilot Sgt. G.H.N. Davey: KIA) but I have so far not found any details of this loss.

Peter

[sidney]

Peter,

You are most welcome. I have little doubt that the RAF claims were made in good faith, no matter how exaggerated. While we are on the topic, it would be interesting to see how the Luftwaffe claims of 18 December 1941 compare with the RAF losses.

According to the aforementioned source, the I./JG 2 pilots claimed 4 Stirlings, 1 Manchester, 2 Spitfires and 1 Hurricane, while in post No.1 you stated that 7 bombers were lost, with 5 of those falling to the Bf 109s. Thus, the I./JG 2 bomber claims were all verified by either the aircraft wrecks, or witnesses who saw them crashing in the sea.

Regards,
Sinisa

[phasselgren]

Sinisa,

Losses according to Tony Wood’s Combat Claims & Casualties:

Stirling
7 Sqn
N3680 MG-Y Me 109s: off Brittany
W7436 MG-D Me 109s: Plougerneauu
N6095 MG-K Me 109s: Cat.3 at Base

15 Sqn
N3665 LS-S Me 109s: Plougerneauu
W7428 LS-Z Me 109s: off Brittany

Halifax
35 Sqn
V9978 TL-A Flak: ditched off Cornwall

Manchester
97 Sqn
L7490 OF-U Flak: crashed Base
R5795 OF-W Me 109s: off Brest

Hurricane
79 Sqn
Z5151 Me 109s: Brignonan

Regards,
Peter