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Old 24th January 2018, 21:43
KeMac1 KeMac1 is offline
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x-gerat & y-gerat & KGr100

I have been reading up on the Luftwaffe’s use of the Knickebein, x-gerat and y-gerat and from what I can see both x and y-gerat had been pretty much jammed by March 1941 by Britain. I have seen a figure of only 20% of y-gerat commanded bomb releases being successful in early 1941 - how can this figure be quantified? Is there anywhere I can check this at all? I also wanted to know if KGr/100 was using y-gerat during the Clydeside Blitz or if they were only using x-gerat? I also wanted to ask if anyone knew why KGr/100 followed KGr I/27 & KGr II/27 on both nights of the Clydeside attacks. I assumed that if KGr/100 was the Pathfinder force, surely they would be in the first wave and not follow?
Last but not least, are both x-g and y-g capitalised?
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Old 24th January 2018, 23:23
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Re: x-gerat & y-gerat & KGr100

The easy one first: all German nouns are capitalised, so it's X-Gerät and Y-Gerät.

In August 1940. KGr. 100 complained that targets round Liverpool were too far away for X-Gerät (I guess the issue was the curvature of the earth vs. the Heinkels' operational ceiling) but that new equipment might make it possible. Clydebank was another 300 km from the beam transmitters near Cherbourg, so beyond the system's range.

You can probably find answers about the effectiveness of British countermeasures in National Archives AIR 40/2337, "Radio counter measures: 80 wing periodical reports, 1941". I've looked at the 1940 volume and it's standard section of each report, so I guess they continued the practice.

The British were also listening in to reports radioed in from aircraft during raids, which may have given an insight into navigational difficulties. AIR 22/485,
"Air Ministry W/T Intelligence Service Daily Summaries, March 1941)" would be the place to look.

There may also be something useful in HW5/9 and /10, "German section: reports of German army and air force high grade machine decrypts" (25 Feb–13 March and 14–29 March 1941 respectively) are the ULTRA decrypts for the period of the Clydebank attacks.

In a similar vein there's HW5/719, "BROWN reports — translations for Dr R V Jones (ADI Science) of traffic of LN Versuchsregiment, Koethen, relating to the setting up and operation of navigational beams (Knickebein) to guide Luftwaffe bombing raids (1940 Sept 5–1941 Mar 25)". Again, I've only looked at some of the 1940 material but the messages do discuss problems the Germans were having. ("BROWN" was just the name the British gave to the radio network used by the navigation beam organisation).

An excellent book on all this is Ken Wakefield, "Pfadfinder: Luftwaffe Pathfinder Operations Over Britain, 1940–44" (Tempus, 1999) ISBN 0 7524 1692 8. One thing he points out is that KGr. 100 weren't the only pathfinders, III./KG 26 and II./KG 55 were carrying out the role too.
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Old 25th January 2018, 15:41
Tony Kearns Tony Kearns is offline
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Re: x-gerat & y-gerat & KGr100

"One thing he points out is that KGr. 100 weren't the only pathfinders, III./KG 26 and II./KG 55 were carrying out the role too.
24th January 2018 19:43"

The Firelighter unit KGr.100 used the "X" Beam System. The III./KG26 used the "Y" Beam System and II./KG55 with very good navigators operated without the assistance of the Beams. I suggest that the reason for not operating the Beam System on sorties to Liverpool, Glasgow and Belfast was the fact that the signal was on VHF.
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Old 26th January 2018, 16:42
KeMac1 KeMac1 is offline
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Re: x-gerat & y-gerat & KGr100

Most helpful thank you both. I have read that the first night of the Clydeside attacks was fairly clear so coming up the Irish Sea would have been reasonably straightforward.
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