Seeking into on the use of Stab symbols on 1940 Bf110s from the Stab elements of NJG1

[edwest]

Larry,

Have you contacted Axel Urbanke at Luftwaffe im Focus? I recall his mentioning having a photo archive.

Best,
Ed

[TigerTimon]

In 2016, Print Scale published a decal sheet on Ehle's aircraft, depicted October 1940 while belonging to Stab II./NJG 1.

However, the sheet shows the victory bar having six night victories. This profile obviously is wrong, for Ehle only scored his sixth nocturnal victory in June 1942.


( I am building a matt black Bf 110 model at the moment)

[retje]

That Ehle scored his sixth (confirmed) nocturnal victory in June 1942, doesn't mean that the picture with six night-victories bars on his ruder, was actually taken in June 1942.

The famous photo series with Ehle and Weng -which shows the Bf 110 E-2/4450 with six night-victories bars- are obvious taken in the winter. The pictures cannot have been taken after June 1942 because Ehle and Weng never saw each other again, after this month. That is why the pictures must have been taken in the winter 1941/42.

An example: the last pictures of the Ju 88 flew by Hans Hahn (NJG 2) which shows victory bars that do not appear in the official "Abschusslisten" (Luftwaffe im Focus Edition No 20 - "der Ju88 C-4 Nachtjäger von Lt. Hans Hahn, 1941").

The official confirmation of some victory’s was up to 2 years later.

René

[TigerTimon]

Thank you René. You are right on the confirmed/unconfirmed argument.
Nevertheless I can't believe the Bf 110 had six victory markings in October 1940 while based at Deelen airfield.
Ehle scored his fifth confirmed victory in February 1941 and there is no unconfirmed victory listed by Dr. Boiten's excellent work in the period between summer 1940 - February 1941.
There is a picture from your collection in the Nachtjagd Combat Archive The Early Years, showing three daylight victories plus Ehle's first nocturnal victory (Bf 110 G9+AL). The latter victory was scored on the 21st July 1940.


Anyways, I was quite disappointed when I found this out, because I wanted to build a Bf 110 from Deelen.


Kind regards, Timon

[retje]

Hi Timon,

Originally Posted by TigerTimon

Nevertheless I can't believe the Bf 110 had six victory markings in October 1940 while based at Deelen airfield.

the Bf 110 of Ehle/Weng had five victory markings in October 1940.

Originally Posted by TigerTimon

Ehle scored his fifth confirmed victory in February 1941 and there is no unconfirmed victory listed by Dr. Boiten's excellent work in the period between summer 1940 - February 1941.

Ehle had a total of five unconfirmed victories. The first unconfirmed victory is exactly in the period between summer 1940 - February 1941.

In my possession are two "Abschusslisten" of the Stab II./NJG 1:

1. from "Einsatzleiter" and "Major beim Stabe" Hptm. August Huchel (the list was written in addition to the KTB),

2. from "Stabsschreiber" Uffz. Horst Diener.

On both lists Ehle’s third nocturnal victory is given as February 9, 1941, and the sixth on June 30, 1941.

I have a series of pictures from the photo albums of Ofw. Weng and Fw. Frank. The pictures show Ehle and Weng in front of the Bf 110 E-2/4450 with six night-victory markings. The pictures must have been taken in the winter of 1941/42. This can be clearly seen by the vegetation, the clothing of the aircrew and the frozen soil. The pictures could also not have been taken in the winter of 1942/43 because Ehle had 16 nocturnal victories at that time and Weng was transferred to another unit in June 1942.

A picture from this series can be found in the book "Die Deutsche Nachtjagd" by Werner Held and Holger Nauroth, page 31; but wrongly stated as "October 1940". Unfortunately, the rudder with the night-victory markings is not visible on this photo.

The information and pictures mentioned above will be published in my book.

Regards, René

[TigerTimon]

Thank you for your kind help and clarification. The decal manufacturer maybe got 'October 1940' from that book.

When does your upcoming book come out and what will the title be?

Kind regards, Timon