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  #1  
Old 11th March 2019, 15:35
Rudi Penker Rudi Penker is offline
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Der Einsatz deutscher Sturzkampfgruppen gegen Polen,Frankreich und England 1939 und 1940

https://www.sound-bm.com/de/allgemei...-und-1940.html
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Old 11th March 2019, 16:38
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
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Re: Der Einsatz deutscher Sturzkampfgruppen gegen Polen,Frankreich und England 1939 und 1940

More information:


"The I. group Dive Squadron 76, also called "Grazer Group" after their place of installation, belongs to the most well-known dive fighting groups of the II. World War. In 1939 she achieved twice as much celebrity. For the first time on 13 August, 13 dive bombers of this association rammed into the ground at a demonstration in front of the generals due to lack of ground view at Neuhammer, where all 26 crew members found the plane death and for the second time as this dive fighting group in the early morning hours of September 1, 1939 ordered the city of Wielun in Poland to be bombed, which in the post-war period led to heated discussions about the role of the dive weapon.

"The book comprehensively documents the history of the dive group I./76 between 1938 and 1940 and provides a brief overview of the dive bomber group now renamed in I./StG 3 and I./SG 3 between 1941 and 1945. Here are the pilots and radio operators , and their fate in the foreground of the book. The most prominent member of this association was Henri Nannen, the later editor and editor-in-chief of Stern magazine. Starting from the pre-war period, Part I presents the genesis of the dive weapon and the Grazer Gruppe. Part II of the book documents all 51 dive battles deployed by Dive Team I / 76 in the campaign against Poland in September 1939. Part III documents the deployment of the Grazer Group in Dunkirk in May 1940 and in the Battle of France in June 1940. Part IV documents the use of the Stukagruppe I./3 against England 1940. Part V and VI represent the deployment planning for the Stukagruppe I./3 in an invasion of England and Gibraltar dar. Part VII shows how the career and the training to become Stuka pilot in the I./StG 3 passed. Part VIII finally gives a brief overview of the use of I./StG 3 in the years 1941 to 1945 from Greece to Syria, North Africa, Southern Russia, Ionian Sea and the Aegean, Northwest Russia, Finland and the Baltic to East Prussia in 1945. In the annexes A detailed overview of all missions, airfields and personnel of the Grazer Group in the campaign against Poland and France is given. More than 100 maps, site maps, organizational charts, striking drawings and overviews of the aircraft crews and casualties allow the reader to get an accurate and vivid insight into the combat operations on the ground, the operations and the personnel of the dive group I./76. Numerous mostly unpublished photos complete the book.

"For the first time since the end of the Second World War, a book will be published, in which the story of a dive bomber group will be presented in detail, profoundly and comprehensively on the basis of original mission reports. The book will interest anyone who wants to know how the Stukas were used in Poland, France and England really and against whom and what military tactical value the stucco weapon on closer inspection, beyond the exaggerated legend and myths actually had."
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Old 20th April 2019, 20:27
INM@RLM INM@RLM is offline
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Re: Der Einsatz deutscher Sturzkampfgruppen gegen Polen,Frankreich und England 1939 und 1940

This title is now in my hands. A most impressive piece of work clearly based largely on contemporary documentary sources. If you want to see exactly how many aircraft each Staffel of I./St.G. 76 put up on many of the Gruppe missions during the Battle of France and who were their crews then it's in here.

The 'normal' proportions of photos and maps are reversed. Lots of detailed schematic maps showing precisely which ground formations were being attacked by this Gruppe with where and when.

In passing, it demonstrates conclusively that the St.G. 76/3 aspects in each the statements below from the de Zeng+ Stankey volume "Dive-Bomber and Ground-Attack Units of the Luftwaffe, 1933-1945: A Reference Source, Vol. 1 (2009) are unfortunately, just plain wrong:

  1. page 100 (I./St.G. 3) "Formation (July 1940) Formed on 9 July 1940 at Barly (17 km south-west of Arras in north-east France) with Ju 87 Bs using elements of I./St.G. 76."
  2. page 124 (StG 76) "9 July: Gruppe disbanded at Barly, with the main element going to form III./St.G. 77 and the lesser element going to form I./St.G. 3."
  3. page 139 (III.St.G. 77) "Formation (July 1940) Formed on 9 July 1940 at either Barly/ 17 km south-west of Arras in north-east France or at Caen in Normandy from elements of I./St.G. 76. Elements of II./K.G. 76, which had been ordered to commence conversion to the Ju 87 on 1 February 1940, are also believed to have been incorporated into the new Gruppe. On the other hand, some respected post-war authorities using archival evidence believe the majority of aircrew came from II.(St.)/K.G. 76, while only a few experienced crews and perhaps some ground personnel came from I./St.G. 76."

[One might also ask, why would the Luftwaffe break up a perfectly good operational Stukagruppe just as it was about to embark on a major and exclusively aerial campaign?]

Now confirmed as reality (but as remarked on at the time by others in the thread here at 13068), I./St.G. 76 was redesignated as I./St.G. 3 on 9th July 1940 ("Am 9. Juli 1940 wurde die I./StG 76 in I. Gruppe Sturzkampfgeschwader 3 (I./StG 3) umbennant und im Rahmen eines Aufstellungsappells in Ouilly le Tesson in Normandie offiziell feierlich in Dienst gestellt." p.168 = On the 9th July 1940 I./StG 76 was redesignated as I./StG 3, a change marked solemnly by a Formation parade at Ouilly le Tesson in Normandy.")

In fact, I./St.G. 76 / I./St.G. 3 was based at Ouilly le Tesson continuously from 30-June to 23-Sep-40. Barly only became the Gruppe's base after that date following the transfer of FK VIII northwards from Normandy and Luftflotte 3 to the Pas de Calais and Luftflotte 2 in September 1940. (The deployment of all Stuka units through the BoB is given in detail across pages 170/1.)

This is the first in a three volume history of St.G. 3 and takes the story in detail up to 3rd Jan 41. However, to whet the appetite, a final chapter across pages 205-220 gives a potted history of the Gruppe through the rest of the war. This confirms that the reason why I./St.G. 1, II./St.G. 2 and I./St.G. 3 each ended up in North Africa is that these were the only Stukagruppen to ever be wholly equipped with Ju 87 R versions. I/St.G. 3 was the last of these, not becoming a fully Ju 87 R-2 Gruppe until 23-April-41 (p.206), at the very tail end of the Greek campaign.

For anyone that has been left with the urge to know more about Stuka operations in 1939/40 this is an excellent account and a superb example of what it is actually possible to achieve in this area. Hopefully a quality English translation will followr.

Last edited by INM@RLM; 20th April 2019 at 20:31. Reason: spelling typo
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Old 21st April 2019, 20:43
edwest2 edwest2 is offline
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Re: Der Einsatz deutscher Sturzkampfgruppen gegen Polen,Frankreich und England 1939 und 1940

Thank you for posting this review. Books about the Luftwaffe are usually meant to appeal to those just outside the specialists circle as well as specialists. The average person is not interested. As credible, new information is published, I suggest a more diplomatic term regarding previous works. Perhaps "adds to our knowledge" or "establishes this or that date" based on primary source documents.

Best regards,
Ed
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Old 22nd April 2019, 01:08
Larry deZeng Larry deZeng is offline
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Re: Der Einsatz deutscher Sturzkampfgruppen gegen Polen,Frankreich und England 1939 und 1940

Quote:
Originally Posted by edwest2 View Post
"......….The average person is not interested. As credible, new information is published, I suggest a more diplomatic term regarding previous works. Perhaps "adds to our knowledge" or "establishes this or that date" based on primary source documents. Ed
Actually, Ed, no one is interested in the Luftwaffe; just certain parts of it. The estimated market for "Luftwaffe in World War II" media is said to be very roughly 50,000, but their interest is limited to the aircraft, the pilots, markings, the aces and who shot down who. Taken as a whole, that was a very small part of the Luftwaffe. And for an old, old timer like me, who started out with RAF Flying Review in 1955, it's the same thing over and over again. So, today, I find myself engrossed in the original documents of Gen.Kdo. I. Flakkorps that have become available on the TsAMO website. It's all fresh material and truly fascinating, but I can count the number of others who are or might be interested in this material on one hand.

L.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 05:38
Jukka Juutinen Jukka Juutinen is offline
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Re: Der Einsatz deutscher Sturzkampfgruppen gegen Polen,Frankreich und England 1939 und 1940

The interest on my part depends 99 % on which language and platform the research is published in. Published in English /Finnish and in book/magazine for = much interest. Published in any other language or in digital format = zero interest.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 09:54
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Re: Der Einsatz deutscher Sturzkampfgruppen gegen Polen,Frankreich und England 1939 und 1940

Actually, Ed, no one is interested in the Luftwaffe; just certain parts of it.
To expand on that, Larry, no one is interested in anything, just certain parts of it.

In the case of any large organisation a great deal of what goes on is done simply to "keep the show on the road" — right down to ordering ink, pencils, typewriter ribbons and stocks of forms. Much of this is—as anyone (me for example) who has ever worked in an office can testify—crushingly tedious, albeit necessary.

You've said before—and you're dead right—that the Flak, signals, ground organisation and so on deserve much more attention than they get but how about the stores clerks, accountants, office cleaners, the RLM sanitation guy, the electrician and the plumber? We all draw the line somewhere!
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Old 22nd April 2019, 10:41
Jukka Juutinen Jukka Juutinen is offline
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Re: Der Einsatz deutscher Sturzkampfgruppen gegen Polen,Frankreich und England 1939 und 1940

Actually it would be quite interesting to learn how Luftwaffe e.g. hired/recruited office cleaners.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 10:49
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Re: Der Einsatz deutscher Sturzkampfgruppen gegen Polen,Frankreich und England 1939 und 1940

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Originally Posted by Jukka Juutinen View Post
Actually it would be quite interesting to learn how Luftwaffe e.g. hired/recruited office cleaners.
And trained them at the Höhere Abstaubenschule der Luftwaffe
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Old 22nd April 2019, 11:10
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Der Einsatz deutscher Sturzkampfgruppen gegen Polen,Frankreich und England 1939 und 1940

Quote:
Originally Posted by INM@RLM View Post
In passing, it demonstrates conclusively that the St.G. 76/3 aspects in each the statements below from the de Zeng+ Stankey volume "Dive-Bomber and Ground-Attack Units of the Luftwaffe, 1933-1945: A Reference Source, Vol. 1 (2009) are unfortunately, just plain wrong:
  1. page 100 (I./St.G. 3) "Formation (July 1940) Formed on 9 July 1940 at Barly (17 km south-west of Arras in north-east France) with Ju 87 Bs using elements of I./St.G. 76."
  2. page 124 (StG 76) "9 July: Gruppe disbanded at Barly, with the main element going to form III./St.G. 77 and the lesser element going to form I./St.G. 3."
  3. page 139 (III.St.G. 77) "Formation (July 1940) Formed on 9 July 1940 at either Barly/ 17 km south-west of Arras in north-east France or at Caen in Normandy from elements of I./St.G. 76. Elements of II./K.G. 76, which had been ordered to commence conversion to the Ju 87 on 1 February 1940, are also believed to have been incorporated into the new Gruppe. On the other hand, some respected post-war authorities using archival evidence believe the majority of aircrew came from II.(St.)/K.G. 76, while only a few experienced crews and perhaps some ground personnel came from I./St.G. 76."

Now confirmed as reality (but as remarked on at the time by others in the thread here at 13068), I./St.G. 76 was redesignated as I./St.G. 3 on 9th July 1940 ("Am 9. Juli 1940 wurde die I./StG 76 in I. Gruppe Sturzkampfgeschwader 3 (I./StG 3) umbennant und im Rahmen eines Aufstellungsappells in Ouilly le Tesson in Normandie offiziell feierlich in Dienst gestellt." p.168 = On the 9th July 1940 I./StG 76 was redesignated as I./StG 3, a change marked solemnly by a Formation parade at Ouilly le Tesson in Normandy.")

In fact, I./St.G. 76 / I./St.G. 3 was based at Ouilly le Tesson continuously from 30-June to 23-Sep-40. Barly only became the Gruppe's base after that date following the transfer of FK VIII northwards from Normandy and Luftflotte 3 to the Pas de Calais and Luftflotte 2 in September 1940. (The deployment of all Stuka units through the BoB is given in detail across pages 170/1.)
Very good review

I cannot answer for either Larry or Douglas but it would be interesting to hear their side of things. None of them seems to me to treat such details lightly. Pre their book the general story has always been that I.StG 76 became I./StG 3 so nothing new there, we then just revert back to what has always been said.

The base quoted, Ouilly-le-Tesson is even more interesting since it seems both De Zeng/Stankey and Mikael Holm has got that wrong. Not even here has this minor field received much attention from said authors.
http://www.ww2.dk/Airfields%20-%20France.pdf
Unless there is more than one Barly in France the distance between the two places is quite substantial.

Cheers
Stig
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