Looking for photos for Polish Campaign Ju87B Color Profile Candidate a/c

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

We've got a total of 38 color profiles in our prospective profile layout for Vol I (Polish Campaign) of the Eagles Over Europe Project. 20 are completed, and 13 more have been tentatively selected or are in production, leaving 5 for which I so far have not found suitable candidates. What I need are photos to support profiles for:

Stab I./StG2: T6+_B
4./StG2: T6+_M; solved; will use T6+AM
Stab I./StG76: S1+_B
Stab I./StG77: S2+_B
Stab II./StG77: S2+_C

These should all be Ju87B-1s (I don't think that there were any B-2s yet in service), and would show small national crosses at the outboard tips of both top and bottom wings, narrow fuselage crosses, and probably all would have tail-centered swasticas. We prefer a/c with visible W.Nr.s and known pilots, but we can work around these if necessary. Four of these are Stab a/c and if we have photos of the "A" a/c we can be pretty sure who the assigned pilot was. Can anyone provide or suggest suitable candidates for these profiles? I'd like to get this a/c off our list for Vol I.

Who can help?

Thanx,

[ChrisS]

Hi Larry

A few suggestions not necessarily what you asked for, and some may not be Poland Campaign but very near it and do have most of your criteria. I have chosen ex-eBay photos to use as there is less chance of these being profiled or published already.

Ju 87B A5+DH* AH or KH 1./StG 1 (AH would be good because of the white fuselage band StaKa marking!) *A5+DH has been profiled before by Kagero and others

Ju 87B A5+FL 3./StG 1 (Leonard and Joineau made a profile of this but it the colours are not good)

Ju 87B T6+FH 1./StG 2 (Simon Schatz did T6+IH as a profile which was very nice)

Ju 87B 6G+PR 7./StG 51
Ju 87B 6G+AT 9./StG 51 (profiled as 9./StG 1 later in the French Campaign by Kagero)

Ju 87B S1+BK 2./StG 76 (four or five photos of this one, sans u/c)

Ju 87B-2 Wkn.5210 S2+JM 4./StG 77 did not take part in the campaign but.....(well documented but maybe later than Poland!)

Chris Simmonds

[ChrisS]

But to better match your requirements:

1 shot of T6+GM 4./StG 2

1 shot of double Chevron Gruppen Kommandeur I./StG76

I have two shots of Stab II./StG77: S2+CC

I'll email them to you.

Chris

[Larry Hickey]

Chris,

I received all of these in my email this morning. Thanx. I already have all of the photos in the EoE DB that you sent me in your second post above. Here are my comments on these:

1) This is clearly later more likely late-Phoney War or Western Campaign/French Campaign, although with a pre-June, 1939, manufacture date (the tail centered swastica) although the plane itself could be probably backdated to 9.39 to fit my needs. I find no evidence that 4./StG2 used the four-leaf clover unit insignia during the PC, and of course, the fuselage cross dates to after mid-October, 1939. This is a BA photo, and the a/c in the background has the previously undocumented 5./StG2 panther (or lion?) insignia on the fuselage of T6+LN, which apparently was an experiment (on at least 2 different a/c--also T6+EN) that never got officially adopted by the unit, which apparently instead opted to use the aggressive penguin design instead. I've asked about that here on TOCH before, but gotten no further insight into the dating, colors or use of that insignia. The four-leaf clover apparently wasn't applied to 4. Staffel a/c until the Phoney War period, sometime during the winter of 1939-40, or the very early spring of 1940. That is why I've already planned to use T6+GM to represent the Phoney War period. My current thinking is that II./StG2 Ju87B a/c did not carry unit insignias during the Polish Campaign, excepting perhaps the Gruppenstab.

2) This, I believe, is << S1+AB, the a/c of Hptm. Siegel, the GrKdr of I./StG76, and might be back-datable to 9.39, but I've already previously selected this to represent May, 1940, as I think that the photo probably dates from that period. I have another photo of that one, but neither show the full a/c code. The problem with this one is the photos don't show the subtype (B-1 or B-2), and I find no evidence that I./StG76 Stukas carried the unit rampant lion unit insignia during the Polish Campaign. Neither of my photos show either the engine cowling or the tail (swastica position) of this a/c. If anyone has photos of <<S1+AB showing the engine area, full code, or tail (hopefully with W.Nr., or any other Stab I./StG76 aircraft, I'd appreciate hearing about it. Chris Goss has shared with me with some helpful photos, but we're still not where we need to be on that unit.

3) S2+CC is WNr5248, and is another photo that is at least potentially back-datable. But the photos I have of it in the DB of it were all taken when it force-landed, probably May-June, 1940, at an unknown date during the WC/FC. Still need photos of ANY Stab II./StG77 a/c during the Polish Campaign period. These might or might not have unit insignias, as the evidence indicates that these were being applied to unit a/c as the PC was being conducted, with probably most a/c carrying them by the end of the campaign.

Chris, your photos helped me rethink my layouts again, but so far I still need candidates for the a/c I listed above. There are certainly photos out there that will fill these gaps, so we have to just keep looking and working the problem. I will address the nine photos you sent in your first post above separately.

Regards,

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

Robert, who posts regularly on this board, has just sent me a series of film frames from a Luftwaffe propaganda movie, "Feuertaufe," showing the landing of T6+AM of Lt. Hamester of 4./StG2 at Stolp-Reitz AF Germany on 1.9.39 after he lost his undercarraige after colliding with the surface of the water on a dive bombing mission during the opening day of the attack against Poland. This a/c is the source of the famous propaganda photo of the Stuka flying without its undercarriage on the way back from a mission during the P.C.

Presently out Luft Loss DB carries this as: "September 1, 1939: 4./StG2 Junkers Ju87B. Pulled out too late and hit the sea ripping off both undercarriage legs during attack on coastal battery at Cape Hel (Poland). Belly-landed on return to Stolp-Reitz 2.45 p.m. (FF) Lt Bernhard Hamester and gunner unhurt. Aircraft damaged but repairable."

We'll obviously need to update this with the a/c code T6+AM and the subtype as a B-1. The photos clearly show probably a 3-digit W.Nr. in white on the upper fin, but this isn't readable on the film frames. Given the nature of this incident, I'm hoping that more photos exist of this one that are clear enough for decent reproduction purposes. I especially need photos of the front part of this a/c from the port side. Besides seeing the forward fuselage/nose more clearly, I'd certainly like to obtain the W.Nr., if at all possible. Would also like to know name of the Bordfunker if anyone knows this.

This a/c is an excellent solution to our need in the EoE Project for a 4./StG2 profile for the PC.

THANKS ROBERT!!!

Regards,

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

Following my post above about T6+AM, Robert informs me that there were PK photos taken of the crash, so perhaps these still exist in the BA Collection. Does anyone have copies of photos of T6+AM, or a FL Ju87B that could be that a/c, which could have been taken by the PK? It seems likely to me that we can further document this a/c, including, hopefully, the W.Nr. The KTB for II./StG 2 for the PC apparently did not survive, so we won't get any information from that source. It will probably take a photo to identify the W.Nr.

Regards,

[Bf 110]

Hello Larry,

Bordfunker of Lt. Hamester was possibly Obergefreiter Behnsen, because he is named as Hamester's BF during the crash landing on 6.9.39 near Schwarzenau (Czerniejewo). But it's only a guess. (Source: Marius Emmerlings Luftwaffe nad Polska part 3, page 78).

Regards,
Bf 110

[ianatheling]

Hi Larry
I found the following (former eBay) photo of S2+AB of stab.I/StG 77, but cannot confirm the date. I am still looking through my files, so may have other candidates to follow


Ian

[G.R.Morrison]

Ian,

Nice photo, but it's an early B-2, and as St.G.77 hung onto their B-1s longer than anyone else (into 1942 in some cases), and it is equipped with the siren mounts, this surely must be a post-1939 shot.

GRM