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Old 19th January 2018, 23:10
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Alfonso G Seagraves, RAF and USAAF pilot, MIA 13 June 1945

Hello, I am searching more information about a pilot lost off California in 1945. Here is what I have.

On 13 June 1945 27-year old Capt Alfonso G Seagraves of 440th Base Unit took off at 1520 from Santa Maria Army Air Field, Santa Maria, California, on an aerial gunnery mission. He was leading the four-ship flight, which had rendezvoused with a target ship at 10,000 feet about ten miles out to sea. The flight had made two firing passes at the target ship when members of the flight observed thick white smoke trailing the port engine of Capt. Seagrave's P-38L 44-23892. Capt. Seagrave turned to the left and broke formation, stating over the radio that he was going to bail out. The pilot was seen to bail out on the starboard side. The pilot successfully parachuted to safety and the airplane spun into the sea 30 miles west of Oceana, California. The pilot apparently drowned while waiting to be rescued. Investigators noted that the sea was rough, hampering rescue vessels and crews in their effort to find the downed pilot. The pilot's body remained missing.

Seagraves was a former RAF pilot. He tranferred to the US Army Air Force in 1942 and flew with 48th FS, 14th FG in Tunisia in 1943, claiming a Bf 109 damaged in the battle of 23 January 1943 against II./JG 51 where six of the 16 P-38s of the 48th FS were shot down. Shortly after all original pilots of 48th FS were sent back to USA.

Source:
"Fatal Army Air Forces Aviation Accidents in the United States, 1941-1945. Volume 3, August 1944-December 1945", by Anthony J. Mireles. ISBN 0-7864-2790-6
http://www.aviationarchaeology.com/s...y/Jun1945S.htm
Arizona Republic from Phoenix, Arizona, 15 June 1945 (available online on https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/117354181/)
Arizona Republic from Phoenix, Arizona, 5 February 1943 (available online on https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/116633474/)
"A history of the Mediterranean Air War 1940-1945. Volume Three: Tunisia and the End in Africa November 1942 – May 1943", by Christopher Shores and Giovanni Massimello with Russel Guest, Frank Olynyk and Winfried Bock. ISBN 978-1-910690-00-0
http://www.usaafdata.com/?q=search

Some comments:
_ both www.aviationarchaeology.com and the MAW book has the name as Segraves, without a, but www.usaafdata.com, Mireles and all newspapers articles (I found some more) write it as Seagraves.
_ www.aviationarchaeology.com has the plane as P-38L 44-23394. This is the serial number of a P-38J. Mireles and www.usaafdata.com both have the serial as 44-23892, a good serial for a P-38L.
_ according to both articles cited above, a 2Lt Alfonso G Seagraves from Tucson, Arizona, was decorated in North Africa in January/early february 1943, and a Capt Alfonso G Seagraves from Tucson, Arizona drowned off California on 13 June 1945. The name is not very common, so I feel safe to say that both P-38 pilots were the same guy.
_ The sentence "The pilot's body remained missing" is from the Mireles book. In this case, my guess was that the pilot's name will be on the West Coast Memorial, but he is not there (121 other USAAF are commemorated on the memorial). It is not on the findgrave site either.

My questions:
1) has someone a trace of RAF or RCAF service of Alfonso G Seagraves ?
2) was his body found and buried ?

Thanks in advance
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Old 20th January 2018, 02:53
RSwank RSwank is offline
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Re: Alfonso G Seagraves, RAF and USAAF pilot, MIA 13 June 1945

Odd about the spelling of the name. In the WWII casualty list published in 1946 for Pima County, AZ we see:

Captain Alfonso G Segraves O-885371 as DNB. (Without the "a"). His name also appears on the Tucson war memorial.

There is also a draft registration card on fold3 (dated Oct 16, 1940) for Alfonso George Segraves, nickname is "Bud".
For those with fold3 access here is page 1: https://www.fold3.com/image/539683721
He was living in Tucson, Pima County, AZ. He was born in Carroll County, Indiana on May 21, 1917. He lists his father as Earl Otis Segraves and has signed the card as Bud Segraves. (again without the "a").

There are a couple of address changes written on the margins of the card.
One seems to be the Aero Center Aviation School in Bakersfield, CA. The other seems to be an aviation school in Tulsa OK. One of these changes is dated in December, 1940. (In light of some of the newspaper articles below, he may have already joined the RAF and was being sent to flight school(s) in the US.)

There are also Tucson newspaper articles in the 1940s that sometimes give his name as Segraves.

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/1668...egraves__1944/

Another article says he enlisted in the RAF in January, 1941 and transferred to the AAF in October, 1942.

There is an article here about Lance Wade (another Tucson native who joined the RAF) that mentions Segraves. Implication is that they both flew in the Eagle Squadrons. (Did they?)

https://www.newspapers.com/image/118003079/


There are several articles dated June 15, 1945 which say he drowned and there is a search for the body.
I doubt the body was ever found. He probably should be listed on the West Coast Missing Memorial.


Then there is this, an odd coincidence but apparently a different "Bud":

http://www.tulsaworld.com/archives/r...97d96078d.html

Last edited by RSwank; 20th January 2018 at 18:32.
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Old 20th January 2018, 03:20
kaki3152 kaki3152 is offline
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Re: Alfonso G Seagraves, RAF and USAAF pilot, MIA 13 June 1945

Interesting. I live in Santa Maria and the P-38 training base is the Santa Maria Airport.
When you take a flight, on takeoff you can look down and see WWII hardstands still present.
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Old 20th January 2018, 04:48
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: Alfonso G Seagraves, RAF and USAAF pilot, MIA 13 June 1945

Hello,
So we have three questions.

1. How did he survive the crash into the Ocean ?
2. How/who rescued him ?
3. Which a/c was it ?

The archaeology site has both serial numbers in its lists.

44-23892 - 44/09/19 - LAC - Smith, Donald D.

And

44-23394 - 45/06/13 - Fatal - Segraves, Alfonso G.

The DPAA lists for WW2 air force only has SEAGRAVE,Alfred F. 385BG/551BS - English Channel, 02/13/1944 - Massachusetts.

Alex
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Old 20th January 2018, 12:54
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Re: Alfonso G Seagraves, RAF and USAAF pilot, MIA 13 June 1945

The incident is described in the war diary of COM Western Sea Frontier from June 1945:
"While conducting gunnery training exercises on 13 June, one of a flight of four P-38's from the Army Air Field Santa Maria crashed into the sea about 17 miles from Point Buchon, in position 35°08'N, 121°13'W, bearing 245° True. Witnessing pilots stated that the crash occurred at approximately 1546, shortly after the plane's port engine caught fire. The pilot, Captain A.G. SEAGRAVES, had been seen to bail out of the P-38 from an altitude of 8,500 feet, although he had been unable to release his parachute harness before hitting the water and was dragged from 50 to 75 feet. An accompanying B-26 target tow plane dropped a life raft to the flyer, but he was unable to inflate it. About five minutes later, the pilot's Mae West life jacket was seen to float away. Meanwhile, an Air-Sea Rescue PBY-5A and the AVR-4 were dispatched from San Francisco to the scene of the incident, while an Army crashboat was ordered out of Avila. A thorough search of the area was made by the surface vessels and aircraft, though no trace of the missing pilot was found. All participating units secured at 2000. It is believed that the heavy seas and cold water, coupled with the exhausting effect an possible injuries sustained by the pilot when he had been dragged by his parachute, weakened him to such an extend that he had been unable to remain afloat after losing his life jacket. It was unfortunate, ASRU authorities stated, that the raft which had been dropped to the flyer by the B-26, was not one of the automatic self-inflating types. When the PBY reached the scene, carrying an automatic type raft, Captain SEAGRAVES had already disappeared."
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Old 20th January 2018, 13:32
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Alfonso G Seagraves, RAF and USAAF pilot, MIA 13 June 1945

Hello, thank to all

Well, this case is more complicated than I thought, with both possible names and about half of the sources using each of them. Still if the man himself signed "Segraves", I will use it, I guess he knows his own name.

Then for his final date I don't think he survived. Mireles only includes in his book fatal accidents, so the official accident report lists the pilot (as Seagraves) as still missing. Why he was not included in the West Coast Memorial is unknown (maybe because he was part of a school unit?).

As for the serial, the P-38L 44-23892 was only damaged (Cat 3) on 19 September 1944. This entry confirms that at the time he was with 440th Base Unit at Santa Maria. So it COULD still be there nine months later.
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Old 20th January 2018, 13:34
Laurent Rizzotti Laurent Rizzotti is offline
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Re: Alfonso G Seagraves, RAF and USAAF pilot, MIA 13 June 1945

Thanks Rainer, we typed our messages below at the same time. My fold3 account is for the moment unavailable for some reason, so thanks for this, I wanted to check precisely this file to see what was written of the rescue effort.
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Old 20th January 2018, 18:13
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: Alfonso G Seagraves, RAF and USAAF pilot, MIA 13 June 1945

Hello,
Thank you for the detailed response, it confirms for certain that the pilot was indeed lost. Also that the elderly gent in the photo provided in an earlier post must certainly be another man.
I agree that the a/c could well have been in service at the later date, which didn't help resolve the question on which a/c it was in June'45.
Also it does not explain why he is not listed in the DPAA lists as still MIA ?
In the "old" lists there was a separate "lost at sea" list, didn't seem to be in the new one.
It also raises the question as to how many others are also not listed in the DPAA lists ?

Also from "Fold3"
https://www.fold3.com/image/31076236...ves,%20Alfonso

Alex

Last edited by Alex Smart; 20th January 2018 at 18:47.
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Old 20th January 2018, 21:57
Frank Olynyk Frank Olynyk is offline
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Re: Alfonso G Seagraves, RAF and USAAF pilot, MIA 13 June 1945

DPAA, at this point in time, is not attempting to record losses in or near the edges of the United States during WW2. Just "outside of the ZI." I know some inside DPAA would like to include fatalities "within the ZI". The most likely problem is funding; plus their mandate may only extend to outside the ZI.

Enjoy!

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Old 20th January 2018, 22:03
Alex Smart Alex Smart is offline
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Re: Alfonso G Seagraves, RAF and USAAF pilot, MIA 13 June 1945

Hello Frank,
Thank you for the explanation, now it makes sence.
Alex
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