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Old 16th May 2011, 05:34
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Hannes Trautloft's Victories in Spain

I was wondering if Trauloft's victories in the Civil War in Spain can be verified with actual losses. I know that several books have come out on the air war in the past few years with information.
1. Breguet XIX 25Aug36
2. Potez 54 30Aug36
3. Nieuport 52 1Sep36
4. Potez 54 30Sep36
5. I-16 8Dec36
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Old 17th May 2011, 17:09
Arsenal VG-33 Arsenal VG-33 is offline
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Re: Hannes Trautloft's Victories in Spain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nokose View Post
I was wondering if Trauloft's victories in the Civil War in Spain can be verified with actual losses. I know that several books have come out on the air war in the past few years with information.
1. Breguet XIX 25Aug36
2. Potez 54 30Aug36
3. Nieuport 52 1Sep36
4. Potez 54 30Sep36
5. I-16 8Dec36
From Abrosov works on soviet archives, there were no I-16 losses, on december 36, the 8th.

For the others, there is (and probalbly always will) a problem with the lack of respublican archives...

Regards
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Old 20th May 2011, 19:40
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Re: Hannes Trautloft's Victories in Spain

Thanks VG-33. Was Abrosov the one that wrote the book in Russian on the air war of the Spanish Civil War?
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Old 23rd May 2011, 11:38
Arsenal VG-33 Arsenal VG-33 is offline
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Re: Hannes Trautloft's Victories in Spain

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Originally Posted by Nokose View Post
Thanks VG-33. Was Abrosov the one that wrote the book in Russian on the air war of the Spanish Civil War?
Yes He is.
For the I-16, not a single doubt, since 24 from the 31s recieved in november 36 were still operating as late as April 1937, the 27th.
No one of the 6 losses by combat and one by accident were corresponding to Trautloft claim.

And more..

1. Breguet XIX 25Aug36
2. Potez 54 30Aug36
3. Nieuport 52 1Sep36
4. Potez 54 30Sep36



I’don’t know about the Bre XIX, a book should be published by Artipresse editions soon.

No known potez 54 losses on 30 Aug36 from P.Loreau works.

September the 1st , J. Fernandez R., the Garcia Lacalle wingmen was shooted down on a NiD 52 but, against Fiats. Might be, an identification mistake...

September the 30th, the “E” is attacked supposingly be Fiats over the sierras in the west of Madrid, and crashed in republican side. Deshuis pilot ok, co-pilote Issart and two frenchman gunners wounded. 4 other crew memebers (one spanish, one italian, 2 french) died.
It was the first combat loss of the Malraux squadron, fom Loreau.

Howson quotes them as either the "E" either the "F" being Trautlofts and his wingmen victims.
J don't know about italian or spanish claims on that day.

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Old 23rd May 2011, 21:15
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Re: Hannes Trautloft's Victories in Spain

Thanks VG-33. That is a "Possible" two out of 6 victories. Legion Condor was still using biplanes at that time so I believe it would be easy to misidentify them as "Fiats" in a pitch airbattle. I believe that he probably made them in "good faith" that he shot them down. His Polish campaign claim will probably be impossible to find.
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Old 21st July 2013, 15:08
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Re: Hannes Trautloft's Victories in Spain

Hi Nokose,

Here is what i have:

25.8.36: The type suffered 28 losses in Republican service. Crew believed KIA in this instance.

30.8.36 (along with Eberhardt and Knueppel): Escadra Espana. These three said to be legitimate victories

1 and 5.9.36: Probably Grupo No. 21

30.9.36 (along with Eberhardt): Escadra Espana. Overclaiming, only one loss: "E" flown by French pilot named Deshuis. 3 WIA and 2 KIA

8.12.36: (along with von Bothmer): Aleksandr Pletjuchin? Esc. Rycagov

Nick
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Old 24th July 2013, 20:12
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Re: Hannes Trautloft's Victories in Spain

Thanks Nick. I've looked at both sets of answers and not sure on how to call Trauloft's SCW claims. Nothing like his confirmation for 1942 so far.
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Old 25th July 2013, 14:17
Nick Hector Nick Hector is offline
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Re: Hannes Trautloft's Victories in Spain

Hi Nokose,

The 30 September 1936 claim is definitely a shared one, as you can see.

Again, can I ask about his 1942 victims....?

Nick
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