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  #41  
Old 15th February 2022, 17:52
Courtois Laurent Courtois Laurent is offline
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Re: Identifications of German victories over East Prussia in October 1944

October 28, 1944

The Luftwaffe claims this day 1 victories.

28.10.44 Oblt. M. Eberwein, 1/JG52, 1 Yak9, 25566 at 500m. (10 km WNW of Goldalp) 06.08


1st VA Losses: 1st Army reports no losses to date and claims 1 Hs-126.

Identification of Yak-9 attacked by Oblt Eberwein:
- 303rd IAD: First flight, from Yak at 6:30.

240th IAD: no encounter with enemy aircraft.

The 130th IAD

909 IAP: 8.40 at an altitude of 800 mt. in the southwestern area of ​​Goldap ml. Lt. Volkodav (Yak-9) conducted an air battle with 2 Me-109s after several attacks, enemy aircraft left the battlefield. Combat flights were canceled due to poor weather conditions.

Despite the time difference (6:08 a.m. to 6:40 a.m.), it is quite possible that the fight was the cause of the claim:
28.10.44 Oblt. M. Eberwein, 1/JG52, 1 Yak9, 25566 at 500m. (10 km WNW of Goldalp) 06.08.

Conclusion: The claim of the day is overclaiming.

Intermediate balance sheet from October 22 to 27, 1944 : for 47 victories claimed by the Luftwaffe, 4 were confirmed by Soviet losses. This leads to an overclaim of 92.5%.
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  #42  
Old 15th February 2022, 18:25
HGabor HGabor is offline
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Re: Identifications of German victories over East Prussia in October 1944

On October 28, 1944 the 1 VA, 1 GvShAD, 136 GvShAP lost Il-2m3, c/n: 1872370 (St.Lt. Zachidulin) in an accident. Plane broken.

Gabor
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  #43  
Old 16th February 2022, 09:34
Courtois Laurent Courtois Laurent is offline
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Re: Identifications of German victories over East Prussia in October 1944

October 29, 1944

The Luftwaffe claims 1 victory today.

Hptm Wilhelm Batz Stab III/JG52 Lagg 25278 – 1000 m 14:18


Losses of the 1st VA: This day the 1st Air Army recorded the loss of two aircraft, an Il-2 shot down by the Flak and 1 La-5 missing.

At first reading, this seems to agree with a Lagg claimed by the Germans and another declared missing by the Soviets.

Now let's look in detail at the Soviet losses.

The 303rd IAD is the only unit to have lost a plane this day according to the report of the 1st VA, but this division does not declare any loss, the flight log of the division indicates that all the planes having taken off this day returned and the monthly report of the 523rd IAP, does not report any loss of aircraft this day either in combat or in accident.

523rd IAP: no loss recorded today.


240th IAD: (Yak-3 and Yak-9) carries out 2 aerial combats without result during the protection mission of the 1st Gv ShAD.
900 IAOKP: perform protection missions of 74 Gv ShaP, two dogfights between 6 Yak-9 and 5 Me 109.

The 130th IAD: 1 fight without result today according to the report of the 1st VA.
168 IAP: Made 12 cover flights of 953 ShAP, no encounters with enemy aircraft.
409 IAP: No war mission due to bad weather conditions.
909 IAP: No war mission due to bad weather conditions.

The Division's report again disagrees with that of the 1st Air Force.


Hptm Wilhelm Batz of Stab III/JG52 could have fought against Yak-9 of the 900th IAOKP. To be sure, the time of the fighting would have to be found in the Soviet reports. If so, note again the generic use of the Lagg appellation.

Conclusion: For this day the overclaiming rate seems to be at 100%.

Intermediate balance sheet from October 22 to 29, 1944: for 48 victories claimed by the Luftwaffe, 4 were confirmed by Soviet losses. This leads to an overclaim of 92%, however, it is possible that this figure is reduced by possible interactions between the units of the Luftwaffe and the 4th Soviet VA.
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  #44  
Old 16th February 2022, 09:38
Courtois Laurent Courtois Laurent is offline
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Re: Identifications of German victories over East Prussia in October 1944

0ctober 30 and 31, 1944.

October 30, No claims for the Luftwaffe no loose for the soviet in aérial fight, two Il-2 destroyed by Flaks.

October 31, No claims for the Luftwaffe no loose for the soviet.
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  #45  
Old 16th February 2022, 11:46
HGabor HGabor is offline
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Re: Identifications of German victories over East Prussia in October 1944

October 31, 1944 the 1 VA, 1 GvShAD, 74 GvShAP lost Il-2m3, c/n: 18710102 (Lt. Sheglov, unhurt) to flak. (Note: not on October 29!)
Gabor
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  #46  
Old 20th February 2022, 09:21
Courtois Laurent Courtois Laurent is offline
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Re: Identifications of German victories over East Prussia in October 1944

October 21, 1944,

This day the Luftwaffe claims no victory over East Prussia.

For their part, the 1st VA deplores the disappearance of 2 Il-2s of the 277th ShAD and claims two aerial victories;
- the first opponent between 5:30 p.m. and 6:03 p.m. 5 Yak-3 of 18 Gv IAP and 4 FW-190 belonging to a group of 12. A 1 FW-190 claimed by Ltn Danilenko would have crashed 15 km north of Pillkallen.
- the second between Yak-3 of the 1st OIAP "Normandie" and 5 Me 109 a 1 Me 109 is claimed by the French. There is no circumstantial report of this fight drawn up by the Soviets.
In all likelihood, this victory is fictitious and corresponds to the return of a victory the day before to Roger Penverne (see Pilotes du Normandie-Niemen, by Gaudart).


Since October 19, the Soviets no longer report "outstanding actions" except those carried out by the surviving pilots of the 1st campaign. If we are to believe Yves Courrière, the Soviet investigation for overclaiming began a few days before October 27 and the Cuffaut affair.

The absence of a detailed account, the use of the contradictory phrase "10 victories, no remarkable action" and the account of Yves Courrières seems to indicate that since October 19 the Russians no longer believe in the aerial prowess of the French.

Intermediate balance sheet from October 21 to 31, 1944: for 48 victories claimed by the Luftwaffe, 4 were confirmed by Soviet losses. This leads to an overclaim of 92%, however, it is possible that this figure is reduced by possible interactions between the units of the Luftwaffe and the 4th Soviet VA.
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  #47  
Old 20th February 2022, 11:38
Stig Jarlevik Stig Jarlevik is offline
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Re: Identifications of German victories over East Prussia in October 1944

Quote:
Originally Posted by Courtois Laurent View Post
October 21, 1944,

This day the Luftwaffe claims no victory over East Prussia.
Not sure why you jump back to Oct 21st here!
Sure you are not talking about Oct 31st?

Cheers
Stig
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  #48  
Old 20th February 2022, 12:05
Courtois Laurent Courtois Laurent is offline
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Smile Re: Identifications of German victories over East Prussia in October 1944

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stig Jarlevik View Post
Not sure why you jump back to Oct 21st here!
Sure you are not talking about Oct 31st?

Cheers
Stig
Hello Stig,

It's seems to me, the luftwaffe have no claim in Ost Prussian the 30th and 31th October.

I'm actually walking on 20th october.
I am going to go backwards until October 1 to treat the whole month in this way.

Laurent
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  #49  
Old 20th February 2022, 12:42
HGabor HGabor is offline
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Re: Identifications of German victories over East Prussia in October 1944

It is interesting, since as far as I know, on October 21, 1944 the 277 ShAD lost no planes at all, however, the 14 VA, 281 ShAD, 703 ShAP lost two Il-2m3s (c/n: 305211, 305439) in air combat. But this can be far away from your territory in question. The 7 VA, 324 IAD, 197 IAP also lost two Yak-9(D,T/M) (c/n: 14166051, 2515392) fighters in the North.

Gabor
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  #50  
Old 20th February 2022, 14:01
Courtois Laurent Courtois Laurent is offline
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Re: Identifications of German victories over East Prussia in October 1944

Quote:
Originally Posted by HGabor View Post
It is interesting, since as far as I know, on October 21, 1944 the 277 ShAD lost no planes at all, however, the 14 VA, 281 ShAD, 703 ShAP lost two Il-2m3s (c/n: 305211, 305439) in air combat. But this can be far away from your territory in question. The 7 VA, 324 IAD, 197 IAP also lost two Yak-9(D,T/M) (c/n: 14166051, 2515392) fighters in the North.

Gabor

Hello Gabor, Maybe if I have the courage after having finished my atlas of the "Normandie-Niemen" which should be called 1st OIAP "Normandy", since the name Normandie-Niemen does not appear officially until January 1, 1946, I I will look at what is happening in Memelsland and in Poland.
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