JG77's 109s shot down by Pattle, April '41

[rammjager]

Hi all!

I am trying to find the markings of III/JG 77 Me-109s shot down by Pat Pattle on 20 April 1941 in order to draw a respective colour profile. One of them, supposedly shot down by him, is an 109E-4 of III/JG77 "Black 10+~", which, apart from the Jg 77 emblem, bears a personal one, extremely difficult to make out, just below the cockpit.

Does anyone have any info about the markings of any of Pattle's victims on 19 & 20 April 1941?
Their names, according to Shores' "Aces High" are:
Oblt Armin Schmidt & Kurt Ubben, shot down on19 April, and
Uffz Fritz Bochert, on 20 April
(all belonged in JG 77)

Thanks everybody in advance

[Stig Jarlevik]

Hallo Rammjäger

I am not sure why you "desperately" need to tie in Victor with the Victim?
This is extremely difficult to do due to overclaiming on both sides and loss of relevant documents.

The combat on the 19th was fought between seven Hurricanes of 33Sq and five 109's from 8.+9.St/JG 77.
The British claimed 4 shot down + 2 damaged while loosing 2 of their own
The Germans claimed 3 shot down, while loosing 3 themselves, incl Ubben, who was reported as falling to Flak, and Armin Schmidt killed. Note that Shores makes a mistake regarding losses in this combat and, this is corrected by Prien in his JG 77 book.

The combat on the 20th involved 29 109's strafing Eleusis and Tanagra airfields. In this combat Pattle claimed 2 shot down while the Germans lost 3. Since only 1 Bf was lost 100%, the other two belly landed back at their base Larissa, it is almost 100% certain that the black 10 was Wnr 3282 flown by Fritz Borchert. Claimed by Luftwaffe as lost to Flak, it seems much more probable he was hit by Pattle's fire. Shores claim the aircraft belly landed at Larissa, but this cannot be correct since that field was held by the Germans at the time and pictures clearly show the aeroplane to be investigated by British troops.

The individual marking on black 10 is indeed strange. I have seen it sketched somewhere, but cannot recall where and certainly not if the artist had got it right or not.

Cheers
Stig

[ssipila]

A detailed eyewitness account about 10+~ is given by none other than Roald Dahl in his memoirs "Going Solo". He was a young Hurricane pilot of 80 Squadron based at Eleusis on 20 April 1941 and took part in the big aerial battle over Athens on that day.

He gives a detailed account about several 109's strafing the airfield after he had landed. He describes one of them getting hit by the airfield's Bofors gun and making a belly landing with its engine on fire. The pilot was captured and taken away in the back of a lorry. Dahl makes no mention of Pattle or any other Hurricane attacking the strafing 109's.

In the book there is a photo showing 10+~ lying on its belly, with the caption "Me 109 crashed, Eleusis". I assume the picture was taken by Dahl himself as no other source is mentioned (he had a camera, and there are several unique RAF-related photos from e.g. Egypt, Greece and Palestine in the book). In this picture, 10+~ is shown from rear right, with the right wingtip covered by something that appears to be dark cloth. There are a couple of Brits in dark uniforms and white (?) helmets standing in front of the cockpit peeking in.

It's anecdotal evidence, but quite detailed and with a photo. Dahl's eyewitness account is consistent with Luftwaffe's report about 10+~ - "lost to flak".

It's a great book by a great writer, by the way - a lot of fun to read and about half of it is aviation

[Stig Jarlevik]

Hi Ssipila

Unfortunately the photo of 10+ in Dahls book is NOT the one that he describes. That was a later attack the same day by JG27 and the aeroplane described by Dahl was WNr 4952 flown by Fritz Rockel

Cheers
Stig

[robert]

Hi all,


the Bochert`s plane bears under canopy the emblem (or its remnants) of 9/JG77 - "Berliner Kindl" trademark of one Berlin`s brewery (see e.g. Barry Ketley & Mark Rolfe Luftwaffe Emblems page 36, 51).
BTW I`d like to see the photo of this "another" black 10.

Regards

Robert

[ssipila]

Originally Posted by Stig Jarlevik

Hi Ssipila

Unfortunately the photo of 10+ in Dahls book is NOT the one that he describes. That was a later attack the same day by JG27 and the aeroplane described by Dahl was WNr 4952 flown by Fritz Rockel

Cheers
Stig

Dang, never occurred to me that he just threw in a photo of a different 109

[rammjager]

Thank you! THAT was very helpful of you! So the mysterious emblem was that of the "Berliner Kindl" Brewery

[rammjager]

Hi all

This is my impression of Uffz Fritz Bochert's "Black 10+~" of III/JG77 with the Berliner Kindl logo under the cockpit. For anyone interested, I hope this helps a little

[robert]

Hi Rammjaeger,


I think the emblem
should be painted a little slantwise.


Regards

Robert

[rammjager]

Hi Robert,
Thanks for the tip. You are right, indeed. Adittionally the Black 10 numeral had a white border. These can be easily fixed but still, the real problem is elsewhere: the attached illustration for Borchert's decals in 1/48 scale depict the trade mark logo on a blue background and not on a red one; also, with the mug not centered on it but a little lower.
I have a lot of job ahead...